Item B3BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
AGENDA ITEM SUMMARY
Closed Session
Meeting Date: 1/18/2007 - KW
Bulk Item: Yes _ No xx
(TIME CERTAIN: 10:00 a.m. or as soon
thereafter as may be heard)
Division: C91mU Attorney
Staff Contact Person: Bob Shillinger
AGENDA ITEM WORDING:
An Attorney -Client Closed Executive Session of the Board of County Commissioners in the matter of
Monroe County v. Department of Community Affairs. DOAH 06-2856GM.
ITEM BACKGROUND:
Per F.S. 286.011(8), the subject matter of the meeting shall be confined to settlement negotiations or
strategy sessions related to litigation expenditures.
Present at the meeting will be the Commissioners, County Administrator Thomas J. Willi, County
Attorney Suzanne Hutton, Chief Assistant County Attorney Bob Shillinger, Assistant County Attorney
Susan Grimsley and Jerry Coleman, Esq., special litigation counsel in this matter for the County, and a
certified court reporter.
PREVIOUS RELEVANT BOCC ACTION: On 12/20/06, the Board authorized this closed session.
CONTRACT/AGREEMENT CHANGES: N/A
STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS: N/A
TOTAL COST: @ $200.00 BUDGETED: Yes xx No
COST TO COUNTY: @ $200.00 SOURCE OF FUNDS:
REVENUE PRODUCING: Yes —No xx AMOUNT PER MONTH Year
APPROVED BY: County Atty _ OMB/Purchasing Risk Management
DIVISION DIRECTOR APPROVAL: bti dP
NE A. TTON, COUN A TORNEY
DOCUMENTATION: Included
DISPOSITION
Revised 2/05
Not Required X
AGENDA ITEM #
O.~~~~~~~E
(305)294-4641
Suzanne A. Hutton, County Attorney..
Robert B. Shillinger, Chief Assistant County Attorney **
Pedro 1. Mercado, Assistant County Attorney
Susan M. Grimsley, Assistant County Attorney **
Natileene W. Cassel, Assistant County Attorney
Cynthia L. Hall, Assistant County Attorney
Christine Limbert-Barrows, Assistant County Attorney
** Board Certified in City, County & Local Govt. Law
December 18, 2007
Danny L. Kolhage, Clerk of Court
Momoe County, Florida
500 Whitehead Street
Key West, FL 33040
r~--''----
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Mayor, Charles "Sonny" McCoy, District 3
Mayor Pro Tern Mario Di Gennaro, District 4
Dixie M. Spehar, District 1
George Neugent, District 2
Sylvia J. Murphy, District 5
Office of the County Attorney
1\11 \t" Street, Suite 408
Key West, FL 33040
(305) 292-3470 - Phone
(305) 292-3516 - Fax
RE: Original transcripts from Monroe County v. Department of Community Affairs
Dear Mr. Kolhage:
Enclosed the original transcripts from closed session held August 16, 2006, and January 18,2007,
regarding the above-stated matter. This case is closed and these can now be considered official
records of the Court.
Sincerely,
---, ~/
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Debra L. Rainer, Paralegal
Enclosures as stated
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MONROE COUNTY
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
EXECUTIVE SESSION
Monroe County vs. Department of Community Affairs
DOAH 06-2856GM
APPEARANCES:
',~ ~
MAYOR MARIO DIGENNARO
COMMISSIONER CHARLES "SONNY" MCCOY
COMMISSIONER DIXIE SEPHAR
COMMISSIONER GEORGE NEUGENT
COMMISSIONER SYLVIA MURPHY
THOMAS WILLI, COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR
SUZANNE HUTTON, ESQ., COUNTY ATTORNEY
ROBERT SHILLINGER, ESQ., CHIEF ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEY
SUSAN GRIMSLEY, ESQ., ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEY
JERRY COLEMAN, ESQ., SPECIAL LITIGATION COUNSEL
"'" -'
The Harvey Government Center
1200 Truman Avenue
Key West, Florida
Thursday, January 18, 2007
10:00 a.m. - 10:37 a.m.
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(Closed Session.)
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MR. SHILLINGER: For the record we're going to be
doing item B.3. first, and then we'll come back and
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open, and then go to one and two. We're doing that
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for efficiency purposes because we have additional
counsel here.
MAYOR DIGENNARO: Go for it.
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MS. HUTTON: Just as a reminder we will only be
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discussing settlement negotiations and strategy
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relating to the litigation expenditures. We cannot
take any decisive action at this meeting. We can only
provide information, and you can provide direction to
the attorneys.
Any decisions the board makes concerning this
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case must be done in a meeting open to the public. If
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it's your wish I'll let Mr. Shillinger take over this
matter.
MR. SHILLINGER: For the record and the court
reporter if we could state our names for the record?
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COMMISSIONER MCCOY: Charles McCoy.
COMMISSIONER SEPHAR: Dixie Sephar.
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MAYOR DIGENNARO: Mario DiGennaro.
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COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: George Neugent.
COMMISSIONER MURPHY: Sylvia Murphy.
MR. SHILLINGER: Bob Shillinger.
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MS. HUTTON: Suzanne Hutton.
MR. WILLI: Tom Willi.
MS. GRIMSLEY: Susan Grimsley.
MR. COLEMAN: Jerry Coleman.
MR. SHILLINGER: The reason we wanted to call
this closed session in this case
we have some new
commission members, and we were at a critical juncture
in the case. This case involves the County's
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ordinance involving density bonus, and the County
adopted an ordinance. Mr. Coleman can give us the
specific details if you want substance to it.
the County adopted an ordinance which allowed
developments of affordable housing to get -- to allow
them to move additional density, additional units onto
the same size lot if those housing measures -- if the
affordable housing units were 750 square feet or less.
In other words, if you have a lot that you could
put one house on, if you had two small 750 square foot
units you could put two on that. It's not a half ROGO
as some have thought it to be. It's just a density
bonus. Half a ROGO would be separate.
MAYOR DIGENNARO: Would that be one unit with two
entries like a duplex, or would it be two individual
houses at 750 square feet?
MR. COLEMAN: Jerry Coleman, Key West.
It really
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won't apply to single-family lots. It was suburban
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commercial and urban residential land use districts.
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So, it was really for districts that already allow 12
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to 18 units per acre. So, the example is correct, but
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it wouldn't apply to single-family lots.
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MAYOR DIGENNARO: Would that be individual units,
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or would that be like condos or something? Would they
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be individual 750 square foot
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MR. COLEMAN: They could be.
MAYOR DIGENNARO: Not that it would be feasible
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financially or anything else, but basically if you
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wanted to put ten small homes 750 square feet on a lot
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you could, with individual entrances and their own
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pieces of property; right or wrong?
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MR. COLEMAN: Well, ten on a lot -- a parcel --
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MAYOR DIGENNARO: A parcel.
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MR. COLEMAN: If you were to put -- let's say you
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could put five for example -- a better example would
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have been 18 on a large parcel, 18 up to 1300 square
feet affordable, if you wanted to do half of those at
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750 foot instead of nine of them you could 18 of the
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smaller units and nine of the larger units.
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MAYOR DIGENNARO: Wait a second. If you had ten
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on a lot
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MR. COLEMAN: That you were allowed.
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MAYOR DIGENNARO: That was allowed on a parcel
that means I could put 20?
MR. COLEMAN: That's correct.
MAYOR DIGENNARO: That's what I wanted to know.
MR. SHILLINGER: Under the current code you'd
still need 20 ROGO allocations for those. That's not
what we're talking about here. That would be a future
decision. At any rate, the County adopted an
ordinance. The Department of Community Affairs found
the ordinance was inconsistent with our comprehensive
plan and with the principle of development.
The essential objection that they had was that
the density tables weren't spelled out clearly enough
in our comp plan. Our comp plan had some basic
general language that said you should adopt ordinances
such as density bonuses that would encourage
affordable housing.
They just wanted more details in the
comprehensive plan, so they filed an objection. They
disapproved the ordinance. We filed a petition which
formally challenge that, set it for a hearing in front
of the Division of Administrative Hearings.
We had reached a potential settlement back in the
fall when we were operating under the -- for four
different parcels that were eligible for Seawhip, and
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we were going to amend the comp plan specifically for
those four parcels under the Seawhip process which
provided for an accelerated approval process amendment
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to the comp plan process. That did not get enough
support to go through, and that proposal was
withdrawn.
So, we still have this case pending where we've
got this challenge to this ordinance. The D.C.A. said
they like the concept, they just want more details in
our comp plan. So, they'd be willing to resolve the
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case if we would just amend our comp plan to provide
for these density bonuses.
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At the time we were going through the Seawhip
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many of the objections were well, you're not going
through the normal process. You're not having the
same number of hearings, you're not going through the
planning commission fully vetting this like you would
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with any other. This was also linked to height. That
was also part of the plan for the Seawhip. The
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ordinance itself has nothing to do with height.
Where we are in the litigation right now is in a
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holding pattern.
I have told the Department of
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Community Affairs that it was my understanding that
the Commission wanted to go back and go through the
normal comp plan amendment process to make the
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adjustments to our comp plan so we could spell out
specifically the density tables they wanted and
address D.C.A.'s objections, and go through the normal
comp plan amendment process, but I wanted to check
with you to make sure that's what you wanted to do
because if you want to do that we can start the
process to do that.
If you don't want to do that, if you -- we have
two other options. We can just rollover and let the
ordinance die, or we can move forward and go and
challenge -- go for a hearing, and just take the fight
to D.C.A. and take it to a hearing and let the chips
fall where they may.
MAYOR DIGENNARO: What's the time span on taking
it to the hearing?
MR. SHILLINGER: Right now we're in a six-month
holding pattern. We've got the Division of
Administrative Hearings to hold off, to give a
six-month status report. Our next status report is
due on June 1, 2007. We did that under the impression
that we were going to go through the comp plan
amendment process.
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If we decide not to do that we can let the Court
know that settlement negotiations have broken down and
we're ready to -- schedule us a hearing. We're
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looking at a couple months down the road. With the
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new D.C.A. secretary it would not be my recommendation
to have our first encounter with him to be a poke in
the eye and say we're going to try and -- we don't
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think that your interpretation is right. We're going
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to teach you a lesson in court. That would not be my
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recommendation to go that route, but I still need
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direction from you, at least your thoughts on whether
we want to go through the comp plan amendment process,
or whether we want to let the ordinance die.
COMMISSIONER MCCOY: You want this formalized?
MR. SHILLINGER: Well, I want some thoughts from
you.
COMMISSIONER MCCOY: Today?
MR. SHILLINGER: Yes, a head nod, but that's
informal.
I want some discussion here because that's
important.
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MAYOR DIGENNARO: Commissioner Neugent.
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COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: Here's my discussion, Bob,
and it ties in with something that happened yesterday
and why I think you've got a fatal flaw in this
situation.
I requested a hurricane evacuation
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workshop study yesterday.
It essentially was shot
down.
You've got a new secretary. This is moving
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forward under a previous secretary that I think was
much more favorable to these kinds of proposals.
I
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can tell you
I can't tell you.
In my opinion
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what's going to happen is that it's going to get
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challenged.
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This hurricane evacuation situation, and again I
will reiterate, the State has rejections to the 18.1
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hour evacuation/clearance time. The South Florida
Regional Planning Council has walked away from the
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18.1 hour clearance time. This is going to be the
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fatal flaw, in my opinion, because development is
development.
I don't care if it's workforce housing or if it's
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market rate housing, and I'm convinced that the tool
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now -- and until this clearance time, evacuation time
is cleared up that gives our opponents in this issue
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all the ammunition they need.
MR. SHILLINGER: Just for discussion purposes my
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response would be this does nothing to adversely
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impact hurricane evacuation because if you're talking
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a full market rate allocations, full ROGO allocations,
all a density bonus allows you to do is cluster them
onto a smaller piece of property.
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That would take the same number of people,
instead of them being spread out on two parcels of
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property they would be consolidated down to one.
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: Correct me if my thinking
is incorrect. Where are you going to get the
additional allocations to create this density bonus?
MR. SHILLINGER: That would be part of the a
project development.
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COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: That would be additional
development outside of the
MR. SHILLINGER: Under our current regulations
they'd be competing in the process to get these
affordable -- the same ROGOs.
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: But you can't say this in
a vacuum in my opinion, that we talked about going to
Tallahassee tomorrow to get -- not tomorrow, but to
get additional development allocations for workforce
housing.
For me that has to be plugged into the mix,
and D.C.A. and the secretary are not going to not
recognize that.
So, that equates in my mind to additional
development over and above the present guiding
principles of development.
MAYOR DIGENNARO: What I understand is what we're
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discussing today is building going forward under the
present situation, what we have right now, with the
present allocations that we have, so it really doesn't
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have anything to do with the expanding of the 18 to 24
hours. It's what it is at the present, what it is
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right now.
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COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: You asked me a question
yesterday, and you got your blood pressure up a little
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bit. Why did D.C.A. tell you that and didn't tell
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anybody else that. I'm just sharing with you right
now based upon eight years of experience what I
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foresee to happen at the D.C.A. level based upon my
experience and knowledge of the people who are
challenging this particular issue.
I think that that is going to be a fatal flaw in
any kind of legal debate over this particular issue.
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MAYOR DIGENNARO: My blood pressure didn't go up
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yesterday for anything except when they attacked some
of our staff. That I'll make very clear. It wasn't
you. It was later on in the day. Outside of that we
have to handle both. We have to go forward with
this
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: All I can do is give you
my opinion.
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MR. COLEMAN: I don't believe D.C.A. will have a
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ground to oppose the density bonus. Our comp plan
states quite clearly, adopt density bonuses. It's
been there for 15 years. They really didn't object to
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the substance at all. We even have language worked
out.
I don't think Secretary Pelham will object if we
go through the process. It doesn't effect the IS-hour
evacuation.
It doesn't give us any new allocations.
It's a separate piece of the puzzle.
MR. SHILLINGER:
It allows us to take the
existing ones that we have -- and any additional ones
that may come into the pool -- and put them on --
cluster them together on -- consolidate them onto
fewer pieces of property.
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: Educate me here, Bob and
Jerry.
In light of what I said, and in light of the
fact that we're going to request additional permit
allocations for development how can you will
exclude -- extrapolate out of the equation that that's
not going to happen? That if I get one additional
allocation I can therefore build two units? Am I
wrong?
MR. COLEMAN: Two smaller units.
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: The other issue being that
this being workforce housing potentially people --
obviously these people will be here living year-round.
They will then figure into the hurricane evacuation
model.
It's not like you can say that they're only
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part-time residents or something like that which we do
with the market rates and second homes.
They're going to figure into the hurricane
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evacuation unless you can explain to me differently.
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MR. COLEMAN: New units will, but I also want to
remind you that in an earlier closed session with Ms.
Hutton and -- I don't think Mr. Saunders was there in
Key Largo -- you also gave us authority to go down to
650 square feet in the negotiations on these units,
not 750 but 650 on the density bonus.
MS. HUTTON: That's right.
MR. COLEMAN: If D.C.A. wanted to go to 650 --
that's what my recollection is.
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: What does that mean?
MR. COLEMAN:
It means that they were kind of
inclined, even when we look at the separate issue of a
half ROGO that they were looking at 650.
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: I think we're missing
something in my comments. That is that now we've got
a confused hurricane evacuation situation because
there's a debate going on whether it's 18 hours or 24
hours, and those are guiding principles of development
that are in the comp plan.
So, those are going to figure into the argument
in my opinion.
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MR. COLEMAN: As well as providing affordable
housing for all the population is also the building
principle and has to be balanced.
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: And they're in conflict.
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MR. COLEMAN: They have to be balanced.
MR. SHILLINGER: They have to be worked through
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together. All this ordinance would do is allow you to
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take the smaller units and cluster them onto a more
dense piece of property.
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COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: Creating density.
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MR. SHILLINGER: Yes. It doesn't add any
additional units. That would be something -- that's a
fight -- if you wanted to use fractional ROGOs, that's
where the difference is.
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If you wanted to have a half ROGO unit assigned
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to one of these small units, that's what the city of
Key West did and was able to do that.
That would add
households to the model, but all this would do is
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allow you to change your density.
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COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: But that potential is
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there.
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MR. SHILLINGER: The potential is there, but that
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would require further action. It would be part of the
discussion, but it's an issue that can be discrete
enough and you can dissect it out.
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COMMISSIONER SEPHAR: May I interject something?
This is workforce housing we're talking about?
MR. SHILLINGER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SEPHAR: This is not growth, this is
sustaining. This is not adding new population.
It is
giving our current workforce a livable space where
they don't have it now, correct?
MR. SHILLINGER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SEPHAR: So, it's not increasing
density.
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: Sure it is.
MR. SHILLINGER: It's increasing density.
It's
not increasing the numbers in the model.
COMMISSIONER SEPHAR: For hurricane evacuation,
George, how is it increasing numbers?
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: If you build units for
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people to stay in that increases density.
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COMMISSIONER SEPHAR: You're talking about
hurricane evacuation. They're talking about people
that are leaving and arriving. Hurricane evacuation
is bodies leaving.
MR. SHILLINGER: This will not increase the
population. This will just allow you to take that
population and smoosh them onto smaller pieces of
property.
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MAYOR DIGENNARO: With more green grass around
the edge and build them closer.
MS. HUTTON: Remember yesterday we had that
discussion about people illegally permanently living
in R.V.s? This is going to enable either modular
homes or something of that nature that would be
different types of housing for them in a more
reasonable cost effective manner than can be provided
for them at this point in time.
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: So, are you trying to tell
me that when we do this the downstairs enclosures will
go away and the other units will go away?
MS. HUTTON: They should decrease.
I mean, that
should be the end result that should decrease. Will
they go away? I can't predict that they will go away,
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but I think that's the goal.
COMMISSIONER SEPHAR: Didn't we also in reference
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to the downstairs enclosures reach the pass where we
said that we could not remove them until we had
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something to replace them with? We could not make the
people homeless. We had to create affordable housing
for them. Remember that?
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MS. HUTTON:
I vaguely remember some discussion
about that and that's all relevant to whether or
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not --
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COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: Bonus density doesn't mean
increased density?
MS. HUTTON: Increased density does not increase
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people.
COMMISSIONER MURPHY: Aside from all of that we
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fought this fight what, three months ago, four months
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ago, five months ago? Do you really want this quickly
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to beat this dead horse again? I'm sorry, but you've
done it to yourselves. You have in people's minds put
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density and height and half ROGO in one little basket.
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You shouldn't have done that.
If you fought one at a time it would have been
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different. That's what is in people's minds right or
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wrong. I'm not going to argue that point. We're
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going to fight this fight again through planning,
through D.O.C., through the newspapers. We're going
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to fight it allover again.
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MAYOR DIGENNARO: I think that's what we're going
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to do the rest of our lives on everything we do
anyway.
COMMISSIONER MURPHY: I don't think so.
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: I think there's a smart
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way of going about it.
COMMISSIONER MURPHY: I happen to live very close
by one of the parcels you're talking about -- not
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close enough to impact me so that has nothing to do
with it, but I do know the area.
It's perfectly
acceptable to the people around there, two very large
mobile home parks, some of which have converted into
homes.
To put affordable housing in there does not
bother them a bit. They didn't mind when the
property -- this is Burton Drive property when it
was purchased for that reason no outcry. Do double
density and you're going to have everyone of them
sitting in the commission room because you are
doubling the density on the roads, on u.s. 1.
MR. COLEMAN: Commissioner, you said there's a
smart way of doing it. What is that?
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: Well, I tie into what
Commissioner Murphy said. I think that if the attempt
is to produce workforce housing especially when you
recognize that there are some inflammatory issues --
and I deal with those on a daily basis, Jerry -- when
one person does something I get a phone call
expressing the other side of the argument, and I wish
there were only two sides to an issue. There's 35
sides to all these issues.
So, when you go out of your way to inject into
the attempt to accomplish something -- something that
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you know is going to be very, very inflammatory, i.e.,
going above the existing height limits, increasing
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density that's unacceptable to the surrounding
residential community, I find that the dumb way to
approach something and guarantees you to put Bob
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Shillinger and Susanne Hutton in a courtroom.
I think when you put something that's available
and you work with the local communities and the
surrounding neighborhoods on something that is
compatible with what they want to see done then that I
equate to a smart approach and really can accomplish
what you're trying to do, and I think -- how long have
we been going on even with the existing workforce
housing?
How many units did we build last year in '06? At
the last meeting I think it was at 26 units.
I don't
think that that deserves a gold star for anybody, and
I think what happens when we inflame the different
factions -- and I'm not saying I support or whatever.
We the commissioners get caught up in it, and we don't
move projects forward in what I consider an efficient
manner, and I think that that's what we're caught up
in right now.
The height limits, the quote, unquote "bonus
density", the reductions. John Dolan Heightlinger
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(phonetic) sat up there and I've got the quote, got
the video. He said -- you know, we screwed up Key
West so we have to look to the other communities,
i.e., outside of Key West to provide the affordable
housing.
MR. COLEMAN: You've been on the commission for
eight years, and in the eighth year we produced 26
units.
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT:
In other years we --
MR. COLEMAN:
In the eighth year, 26 units.
COMMISSIONER SEPHAR: I'll be the one that has
the gumption to say it. It's the will of the
commission whether they really want affordable housing
or not, and we have allowed the public to continue to
try to prevent it.
It's clear in my mind that workforce housing is
sustaining a population that is here because we have
the regulations that say you have to work here so
long, you have to have the percentage of your income
coming from -- it is not bringing somebody new into
Monroe County.
It's sustaining.
The only way that we can build projects is to
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have larger numbers where it's affordable. The public
has refused because they don't want in it their
backyard and we have allowed them to do that. We have
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allowed them to tell us what we should do. We have
not had the will to do it ourselves, and sometimes you
have to make decisions that the public does not want
and this board has not made them.
COMMISSIONER MURPHY:
I would strongly disagree
with the not-in-my backyard. People from Key West are
fighting it. Key Largo people are fighting it.
In
Marathon people are fighting it on Grassy Key.
This is county-wide, and it might behoove us to
remember who put us in these seats. They didn't elect
us to be Mommy and Daddy. They elected us to
represent them, and if the majority of the people
don't want something I'm all for it whether I agree
with it or not. That's what they'll get.
MAYOR DIGENNARO: Commissioner Sephar.
COMMISSIONER SEPHAR:
I do not forget who put me
here. I can never because they remind us who put us
here. But, we have -- and you cannot blanket
statement say the majority. There are so many people
that don't come to these meetings, that don't speak.
We don't know what the majority is.
We know that we have the various communities
begging for housing for their workforce. We have
utilities, the school board, even the military
saying that they need housing.
I think that's an
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unfair statement to say that the majority are opposed
to workforce housing or density.
I think it's
debatable on height. Seawhip was probably the worst
thing that ever happened to us because it gave us a
carrot.
If we would step aside from the normal procedure
they didn't take into consideration that Monroe County
has an area of critical concern which creates problems
or where we had to fast pace. What a terrible way to
try to bring a change in in what we tried do, but it's
our responsibility to try to protect that $5 million.
Affordable housing and this increased density is not
increasing population in my opinion.
MAYOR DIGENNARO: I just have one thing to say.
I believe not only talking about majority.
I believe
it's the absolute minority, and if we don't go forward
doing our duty we're not representing the people that
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put you here in office.
I believe it's the majority
out there that we're trying to get through now.
COMMISSIONER MCCOY:
I don't know why I'm getting
in the argument, but I'm an architect and I see the
county different.
I see where we're trying to provide
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humane quality living conditions for people that are
not there now. They're in substandard housing
throughout the Keys to a very large extent.
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What we're trying to do is give them quality
housing so they can live in human conditions in the
21st Century, not in substandard housing in some other
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period of time.
I have seen a lot of those parks and
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everything where people are living in substandard
conditions.
So, okay, the people that have quality housing
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aren't comfortable in a trailer park and everything.
They're comfortable and they say I'm comfortable and I
don't want anything changed, and I can understand that
and that's fine, but there are other people that are
growing up, children and everything that are coming
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into the Keys through birth or through any other way
that need quality comfortable living conditions, and
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that's the only thing that I'm seeing here.
If this is a better way to do it then fine, let's
bring those things -- let's go ahead and tell them how
we want it done. But there should be an improvement
in the quality of living conditions of the people in
the Keys.
It's a continuing thing.
It's something that's going to have to be
addressed if not now at some point along the line. If
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we want to do it now let's give him direction.
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT:
For the record I think we
got sidetracked from the original question on our
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personal feelings and out interpretations of what the
voters want, but I think that each and everyone of us
want to promote affordable housing in our own
particular way which mayor may not be in agreement
with each individual up here.
I didn't interpret
Ms. Murphy's comments in any other way.
MR. SHILLINGER: There are three choices, and
because they're such division here and from your
comments I'll ask you to make a choice, we'll take a
vote when we come back in open session because I want
to make sure we have clarity here. We have three
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choices.
By way of reference we've already passed this
ordinance.
It passed 5-0 I believe. Now, two members
have changed since then but it passed 5-0 back in
April of last year.
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: Can I comment on the 5-0
as I did yesterday? A lot of times votes are not as
black and white.
It was -- and I'll say for me right
now it was a matter of transmitting it to D.C.A. to
get their feelings and opinion.
I didn't necessarily
endorse that even though I voted for it.
I wanted it to get to the D.C.A. so we could move
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on whatever the situation was.
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MAYOR DIGENNARO: Right now for the record I want
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to say one thing. If I ever vote on anything it will
be black or white. When I vote -- so everybody knows
here on record and on every other record, when I vote
it will black or white. Either I'm right or I'm
wrong.
I just want to clarify that for the record.
Now we can move on.
I need direction.
MR. SHILLINGER:
Do we go
forward with the challenge, just go ahead and duke it
out with D.C.A. which would not be my preferred course
of action --
COMMISSIONER MCCOY: As soon as this thing is
over you're going to have an open meeting?
MR. SHILLINGER: Right.
COMMISSIONER MCCOY: Why don't we proceed?
MR. SHILLINGER: Well, I want to throw the three
options out to you so if you want to have any
discussion before we go back into open session we can
do that.
Do we fight it out, do we rollover, or do
we go through the adoption process -- at least go
through the process.
It may not pass -- and leave the case in
abatement while we're going through the standard comp
plan amendment process.
COMMISSIONER SEPHAR: Do you need a verbal on
this?
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MR. SHILLINGER: Because there's such division
I'm going to ask for a formal vote when we come back.
Are there any other questions you have before we come
back into open session?
COMMISSIONER MCCOY: I agree with Mr. Shillinger
on the last one, go through the regular process and
keep the case on
MR. SHILLINGER: We'll close the closed session,
and we'll come back into open session, and while we're
waiting this is Susan Grimsley.
I'm not sure if all
of you are aware of here. She's an assistant county
attorney in our office.
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She's been with us for about two years now, and
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she's been helping out with growth management of late.
MR. SHILLINGER: The closed session is not
terminated and we're back in open session.
(Time noted: 10:37 a.m.)
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CERTIFICATE
I, BARBARA J. PRINDLE, Registered Professional
Reporter, do hereby certify that I was authorized to and
did stenographically report the foregoing proceedings, and
that the transcript is a true record.
Dated this J,5
day Of~' 2007.
~cf, Yl,n~
BARBARA J INDLE, RPR
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