Item J1
.* CLOSED:. SESSION *
* TIME CERTAIN 1;30 P.M. *
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
AGENDA ITEM SUMMARY
Meeting Date: 1/15/09 - KW Division: County Attorney
Bulk Item: Yes - No ~ Staff Contact Person: Lisa Granger #3170
AGENDA ITEM WORDING:
A closed executive session of the Board of County Commissioners in the matters of Board of County
Commissioners of Monroe County, Florida v. Tony Welters and Virginia Welters, Case No. 03-
CA-1505-K and Board of County Commissioners of Monroe County, Florida v. Louis Welters. et.
al.. Case No. 04-CA-639-K. .
ITEM BACKGROUND:
Legal staff desires direction from the Board on the case. Per F.S. 286.011(8), the subject matter of the
meeting shall be confined to settlement negotiations or strategy sessions related to litigation
expenditures. ' ,
Present at the meeting will be the Commissioners, County Administrator Roman Gastesi. County
Attorney Suzanne Hutton, Chief Assistant County Attorney Bob Shillinger, Assistant County Attorney
Cynthia Hall. Assistant County Attorney Lisa Granger, Assistant County Attorney Christine Limbert-
Barrows and a certified court reporter.
PREVIOUS RELEVANT BOCC ACTION:
6/17/09 BOCC approved Closed Session for 7/15/09 @ 1 :30 p.m. in Key West
CONTRACT/AGREEMENT CHANGES: N/A
STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS: Approval.
TOTAL COST: @.$200.00 INDIRECT COST: BUDGETED: Yes xx No
- -
COST TO COUNTY: (iij$200.00 SOURCE OF FUNDS:
REVENUE PRODUCING: Yes No xx AMOUNT PER MONTH Year -
County Atty I)!t OMB/Purchasing NI A Risk Management N/ A
APPROVED BY:
DOCUMENTATION: Included - Not Required X
D.lSPOSITION: .. AGENDA ITEM #
Revised 2/05 i;.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
County of Monroe Mayor Holly Merrill Raschein,District 5
Mayor Pro Tem James K.Scholl,District 3
The Florida Keys Craig Cates,District 1
., Jl Michelle Lincoln,District 2
Robert B.Shillinger,County Attorney** David Rice,District 4
Pedro J.Mercado,Sr.Assistant County Attorney**
Cynthia L.Hall,Sr.Assistant County Attorney**
Derek V.Howard,Sr.Assistant County Attorney** Office of the County Attorney
Christine Limbert-Barrows,Assistant County Attorney** I I11 12'Street,Suite 408
Peter H.Morris,Assistant County Attorney ** Key West,FL 33040
Patricia Fables,Assistant County Attorney (305)292-3470 Office
Joseph X.DiNovo,Assistant County Attorney** (305)292-3516 Fax
Kelly Dugan,Assistant County Attorney
Christina Cory,Assistant County Attorney
Nathalia Archer,Assistant County Attorney
**Board Certified in City,County&Local Govt.Law
January 17, 2024
Kevin Madok, CPA
Clerk of the Court, 16'Judicial Circuit
Monroe County Courthouse
500 Whitehead Street
Key West, FL 33040
In Re: Monroe County v. Welters, Case No.: 03-CA-1505-K
Monroe County v. Welters, Case No.: 04-CA-639-K
Dear Mr.Madok:
Please find attached a scan of the transcript of the attorney-client closed session held on July 15, 2009, before
the Monroe County Board of County Commissioners, in connection with litigation in both cases cited above.
The litigation has concluded; under Fla.Stat. 286.011(8), the transcript may be made part of the public record
once litigation has ended.
Thank you for your assistance in this matter. Please contact me if you have any questions.
Sincerely
Digitally signed by Cynthia L Hall
DN:cn=Cynthia L Hall,o=Monroe
n County BOCC,ou,email=hall-
W Cynthia@monroecounty-fl.g-
'2024.01.16 15 47 13-OS'00'
Cynthia L. Half
Senior Assistant Monroe County Attorney
Attachment: Scan of Closed Session Transcript dated 07/15/2009
1
2 BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF MONROE COUNTY
3 ATTORNEY-CLIENT CLOSED SESSION
4 WEDNESDAY, JULY 15, 2009
5 1 : 30 - 2 : 00 PM
6 BOCC of Monroe County vs . Tony & Virginia Welters, et al .
7 Case No . 03-CA-1505-K
8 and
9 BOCC of Monroe County vs . Louis Welters, et al .
10 Case No . 04-CA-639-K
I
11 i �
12 COUNTY COMMISSIONERS :
13 George Neugent, Mayor
14 Heather Carruthers, County Commissioner
15 Mario DiGennaro, County Commissioner
16 Sylvia Murphy, County Commissioner
17 Kim Wigington, County Commissioner
18
19 STAFF:
20 Suzanne Hutton, County Attorney
21 Robert Shillinger, Chief Assistant County Attorney
22 Lisa Granger, Assistant County Attorney
23 Roman Gastesi, County Administrator
24
i 25
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2
1 MS . GRANGER: This is a closed attorney-client .
2 session pursuant to Section 286 . 011 subsection ( 8 )
3 of Florida Statutes . It is estimated that the
4 meeting will take approximately thirty minutes .
5 The persons attending the meeting will be the
6 County Commissioners, County Adminstrator Roman
7 Gastesi, County Attorney Suzanne Hutton, Chief
8 Assistant County Attorney Robert Shillinger,
9 Assistant County Attorney Lisa Granger and a
10 certified court reporter .
11 Since the law prohibits any other person from
12 being present at the closed session, the
13 commissioners, the attorneys for the County and the
14 court reporter will now remain in this meeting room
15 and all other persons are required to leave the
16 room. When the closed session is over, we will
17 re-convene and re-open the public meeting . The
18 Mayor will now close the public meeting .
19 MAYOR NEUGENT : The public meeting is now
20 closed and we will open the special meeting .
21 COMMISSIONER DiGENNERO : I like to go
22 through meetings quick.
23 MS . HUTTON: This is the closed session of
24 the Board of County Commissioners in the matter
25 of Board of County Commissioners of Monroe
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3
1 County, Florida versus Tony Welters and
2 Virginia Welters , case number 03-CA-1505-K and
3 Board of County Commissioners of Monroe County,
4 Florida versus Louis Welters , et al, case number
5 04-CA-639-K. This closed session is being held
6 pursuant to the request of the County Attorney,
7 who announced at a prior public County Commission
8 meeting on June 17 , 2009 that I needed advice
9 concerning the pending matters .
10 At that meeting the board approved holding
11 today ' s closed session and public notice was
12 given at the June 17th, 2009 BOCC meeting
13 and through publication of the agenda for the
14 July 15th, 2009 BOCC regular meeting .
15 For the record, and the benefit of the
16 court reporter, each of us will state our
17 name and position starting with the commission .
18 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Heather Carruthers,
19 County Commissioner, District 3 .
20 COMMISSIONER DiGENNARO: Mario DiGennaro,
21 County Commissioner, District 4 .
22 MAYOR NEUGENT : George Neugent, County
23 Commissioner, District 2 .
24 COMMISSIONER MURPHY : Sylvia, County
25 Commissioner, District 5 .
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4
1 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON : Kim Wigington,
2 County Commissioner, District 1 .
3 MS . HUTTON : Suzanne Hutton, County
4 Attorney .
5 MR . GASTESI : Roman Gastesi, County
6 Administrator .
7 MR . SHILLINGER : Bob Shillinger, Chief
8 Assistant County Attorney.
9 MS . GRANGER: Lisa Granger, Assistant
10 County Attorney.
11 MS . HUTTON : Just as a reminder we will only
12 be discussing settlement negotiations and strategy
,i 13 relating to litigation expenditures . We cannot
ce,
14 take any decisive action at this meeting . If
15 you want to take decisive action we will have to
16 bring that back up at the open session . Any
17 decisions have to be done in the public meeting .
18 I am going to turn this over to Ms . Granger
19 to lay out the facts of the case and explain why
20 we ' re here .
21 MS . GRANGER : Thank you . Good afternoon,
22 Mayor, Commissioners . As you know, I am Lisa
23 Granger . I am the County code enforcement
24 attorney so obviously this litigation started from 0,, 25 a code enforcement action .
p
i
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5
1 It involves property -- it actually
2 involves three lots in Rockland Key . We ' re
3 down to two now specifically lot 23 and 24 in
4 Rockland Harbor .
5 I have supplied each of you with some
6 pictures . If you will turn towards the back
7 the very first picture looks like a pink
8 lean to . There is 11 pictures that were taken
9 in 2005 and the pictures that are at the back of
10 your brochures are current .
11 You will see that these structures are
12 basically lean tos . They are shacks for lack of
13 a better term. There has never been a house on
14 these properties since the time the code
15 enforcement action was initiated .
16 MAYOR NEUGENT : A little shy of our
17 present building code .
18 MS . GRANGER : Right . What brought code
19 out to this area was in 2001 there was a fire
20 at these buildings . There has been a family
21 that has lived there . The father has since
22 passed away . He was about 93 years old at the
23 time of the first fire .
24 There are currently two sons of his
05 25 living on the property and one is in his
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1 60 ' s and one is in his 70 ' s . These are people
2 who have no education, have never worked except
3 I understand that the younger of the brothers
4 is now working for Waste Management for what that
5 is worth, but in any event they have lived on
6 this property their whole entire life .
7 In 1966 there was a house permitted and
8 built and I supplied a picture of that in here
9 as well . It looks like a long trailer .
10 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Can I ask a
11 question . What is the difference between the
12 photo on the top and the bottom?
13 MS . GRANGER : They just were all taken at
14 the same time . Different angles . I just wanted
15 to give you a feel for the property .
16 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Okay .
17 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON : They have lived
18 there for 60 and 70 years?
19 MS . GRANGER : Yes .
20 COMMISSIONER DiGENNARO : I have a question .
21 Who owns this property; do they own it?
22 MS . GRANGER: The brothers and one sister
23 own all of these .
24 COMMISSIONER DiGENNARO : The land .
25 MS . GRANGER: Yes , the land . Yes . So,
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1 in any event, what happened as a result of
2 code enforcement case they never brought the
3 property into compliance . Fines have been running
4 since that time . So the county is owed over a
5 million dollars on both of these two lots .
6 Okay . So prior outside counsel on behalf
7 of the county filed a foreclosure action on
8 these lots , 23 and 24 .
9 MAYOR NEUGENT : Who filed foreclosure?
10 MR . SHILLINGER : Vernis & Bowling back
11 in 2003 . We farmed these out . They were going
12 to collect on them.
13 COMMISSIONER MURPHY : Excuse me . There
14 were three lots now there are two .
15 MS . GRANGER : That is correct . The family
16 still owned lot 24 but that lot has been
17 cleared up and cleaned up under an agreement that
18 Mr . Shillinger worked out with the family . That
19 lot is not part of this action currently .
20 COMMISSIONER MURPHY : But they do own that
21 lot?
22 MS . GRANGER: That is correct .
23 COMMISSIONER DiGENNARO : Can you tell me
24 do they have fines they had to pay on that other 025 lot at that time?
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1 MR . SHILLINGER : That was resolved in
2 a settlement agreement back in 2000 .
3 COMMISSIONER DiGENNARO : And what was
4 that settlement agreement? Was there any
5 financial --
6 MR . SHILLINGER : No, it was one of those --
7 COMMISSIONER DiGENNARO : One of those
8 clean it up and we won ' t give you a fine .
9 MR. SHILLINGER: We entered into a
10 contempt decree where if there is further
11 violation they could be held in contempt
12 of court . There is no money to go after so
13 it was the threat of jail that is hanging over
`.
14 this family ' s head in terms of that lot .
15 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON : I think I remember
16 part of this and there was no ability to pay a
17 fine; am I correct? This was not homesteaded
18 although for all practical purposes it should
19 be homesteaded, right?
20 MS . GRANGER : Commissioner, lot 23 has
21 always been homesteaded . Lot 24 has been
22 homesteaded with the exception of 2008 . For
23 some reason they did not homestead it .
24 I supplied the property record card
25 here for you . The first one is lot 23 and if you
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1 will it shows the exemption from the tax role
2 year of 2008 all the way back to 1980 shows a
3 homesteaded exemption on that property .
4 MR . SHILLINGER : Understand that the tax
5 homestead is separate from the homestead that
6 prohibits us from foreclosing on somebody ' s
7 homestead . There is an exemption from execution
8 and there is a tax homestead . They are similar
9 and they often overlap but they are not mutually
10 exclusive so if someone can prove that they lived
11 there they can prevent the foreclosure of their
12 house in satisfaction of a lien .
13 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON : Well, it ' s
14 observable that is the case, isn ' t it?
15 MS . GRANGER : That is correct and lot 24
16 you will see the same thing that up until 2007
17 it was homesteaded our records show back all the
18 way to 1982 .
19 Lot 25 that is not part of this is the
20 only lot that was never homesteaded .
21 COMMISSIONER MURPHY : Which is the one
22 that has already been taken care of?
23 MS . GRANGER : 25 . It ' s clear it ' s a vacant
24 lot .
25 COMMISSIONER MURPHY : 23 and 24 .
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1 MS . GRANGER : Right . So we are here only
2 on 23 and 24 today .
3 COMMISSIONER DiGENNARO : One is homesteaded
4 the other is not .
5 MS . GRANGER : That is correct . Then we
6 have the added confusion with this property
7 is the zoning . This is in an AQ zone noise
8 level so I have included that map .
9 COMMISSIONER MURPHY : Gee, I wonder who was
10 there first .
11 MS . GRANGER : These properties have gone
12 anywhere from vacant, no single family residence,
13 up to mobile home, codes, for the property codes .
14 You will see in the property appraiser ' s records
15 that I have supplied the family has paid taxes
16 and I have to be honest they are a significant
17 amount of. taxes that they have paid .
18 COMMISSIONER MURPHY : And they do pay them?
19 MS . GRANGER : And they have been paying
20 them so the reason why we are here today is
21 obviously the County through Vernis & Bowling
22 brought a foreclosure action . The court is
23 looking to me to make a decision whether to try
24 this case to go to trial to ask for a judgement
25 and obtain the property on the County ' s behalf or
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1 to voluntarily dismiss it . So I am looking for
2 guidance from you because I , with all the
3 attorneys in my office, and with the planners
4 have tried to put together a package that might
5 be acceptable to both us, the county and the
6 family to provide them with safe housing and
7 we can ' t do it between the zoning --
8 COMMISSIONER MURPHY : What do you mean by
9 safe housing, Lisa?
10 MS . GRANGER: Well, safe housing in my
11 mind would have been working with Habitat for
12 Humanity or another non profit to either provide
13 a liveable trailer or a home .
14 COMMISSIONER MURPHY : Are these all adults
15 out there?
16 MS . GRANGER: Yes .
17 COMMISSIONER MURPHY : One is 60 , one is
18 70 and there is a sister?
19 MS . GRANGER: There is a sister that lives
20 in North Carolina . We did run credit checks to
21 try and see if there were any assets . The
22 sister seems to be the only one -- I can only
23 determine to be in a trailer in North Carolina .
24 I have not found any assets but the caveat to that
25 is I would never know how much these people had in
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1 the bank but from their deposition quite a
i
2 while ago they don ' t have any assets . They
3 have a pro bono attorney .
4 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Who is paying
5 their taxes ?
6 MS . GRANGER : Well , you know, I don ' t
7 know . I can guess the sister is or they may
8 have had some help from another family in the
9 community, but there is no clear evidence
10 of that . They did have help cleaning it up .
11 This place was a mess initially when the fire
12 happened .
13 COMMISSIONER DiGENNARO : What is the
14 property worth?
15 MS . GRANGER : They are paying significant
16 taxes on it . Property appraiser ' s office
17 in my mind has a very inflated value on the
18 property . They put on the one lot is worth
19 $318 , 000 . The other lots close to $300 , 000 .
20 COMMISSIONER MURPHY : What is on this
21 lot?
22 MS . GRANGER : What you are seeing .
23 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : What is in the
24 neighborhood?
25 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON : This whole
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1 neighborhood looks like this to be honest with
m
2 you . There are homes paying less taxes
3 than that on their homes .
4 COMMISSIONER MURPHY : On homes valued
5 less than that .
6 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Why are their
7 taxes so high .
8 COMMISSIONER DiGENNARO : This is your
9 area .
10 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON : Yes , it is .
11 MAYOR NEUGENT : What do you think should
12 happen, Kim.
j 13 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON : Well, I remember
14 this in 2003 and I thought it was ended in 2003 .
15 I remember very little of it but I mean they
16 probably work any way that they can or sell
17 anything they can whether it be fish or
18 whatever just to have enough to pay the taxes .
19 From what I remember I mean probably everything
20 they have goes to pay the taxes . It concerns
21 me that all of a sudden this is not homesteaded
22 and they probably -- I mean I don ' t mean to make
23 this judgement . You mentioned their education,
24 they probably don ' t realize what is going to
25 happen when the taxes go up they may not be able
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1 to even pay the taxes . This was dismissed, I
2 thought in 2003 ; was it not?
3 MR . SHILLINGER : There were three
4 separate cases , one against each lot . Counsel
5 had filed the action had filed three separate
6 actions and we had resolved the one involving
7 the sister . Quite frankly she is the most
8 intelligent, most responsive and the one who
9 is most concerned about it .
10 The two brothers don ' t have those
11 capabilities .
12 COMMISSIONER MURPHY : Did they each own
13 one lot?
14 MR . SHILLINGER : At least with respect to
15 the sister in the prior case it was clear
16 that they treated it as if it were her lot .
17 MS . HUTTON : If I can add, if you look
18 at the property record card it appears that
19 the buildings themselves have always had a
20 diminutious value but the property values
21 have been obviously going up and also over a
22 period of time from about 1990 to 2007 , well
23 2006 only a partial homestead exemption was
24 actually granted so that tells me there were
25 other people that were not entitled to the
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1 homestead exemption who were actually residing
2 on the property and so the property appraiser
3 only accorded a partial homestead exemption
4 to these properties .
5 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON : It wasn ' t
6 because it was several lots put together?
7 MS . HUTTON : No, I don ' t think so . I
8 think it was there could be commercial activity
9 on there . It could be or it could be that there
10 were people that were renting space there . That
11 is what I was assuming that there people renting
12 the space based on what I have seen at the value
13 adjustment hearings .
14 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON : This may not be a
15 good thing to say here but I am going to say
16 it anyway . I would like to get them before
17 the value adjustment board to adjust the property
18 and I can ' t be a part of taking a 60 and 70 year
19 old off the property when the whole neighborhood
20 looks like this . That community is hidden back
21 in there . Very few people even realize what is
22 there and most of them have been there for that
23 long so I hate that it even ended up in code
24 enforcement . What do you do with the
25 rest of the properties around it?
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16- 1 MS . GRANGER: Well, with this particular
property why code enforcement became involved
3 is because the fire marshall was there and
4 called them out there way back then . It ' s
5 not a current code case but there is code
6 violations continuously obviously .
7 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON : And the code
8 violation -- well , you can ' t even get into it .
9 I am just looking at it .
10 COMMISSIONER MURPHY : It seems like what
11 we have here is a time when we can do one of
12 two things . We can be the big bad guy and go
13 by the rules and make those rules stick or we
14 can be a little more humanitarian . There is no
15 children involved. These are people who have
16 lived out there for many, many, many years . When
17 I worked on Big Coppitt many years ago in 1986,
18 ' 87 some of our ambulance calls were out of
19 Rockland and Kim is right . It all looks like
20 this .
21 They are very nice people . They are
22 very hospitable people and they don ' t have
23 anything . Most of them don ' t have education
24 and I don ' t think they should be punished
e,oi 25 for that . They have lived there all their
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1 life and suddenly we ' re going to come down
2 on them with a hammer . I don ' t like it .
3 I would say do away with this code case,
4 pretend it didn ' t happen and let them live
5 out their life on that property .
6 MS . GRANGER : I need to make one
7 clarification . This action, this litigation
8 is totally separate from the code action . Under
9 the code action the county lien will remain
10 for 20 years so if they ever by miracle build
11 a house or sell this lot the county hopefully
12 at that time will be paid back a least a portion
13 of the lien .
14 But why we are here today is exactly right
15 is for a foreclosure action .
16 COMMISSIONER MURPHY : No .
17 COMMISSIONER DiGENNARO : What would staff ' s
18 recommendation have been?
19 MR. SHILLINGER : We have been beating
20 ourselves up on this going back and forth trying
21 to figure out a best way to do it . This is the
22 best way to do it we think is to drop the
23 foreclosure action, leave the lien in place,
24 dismiss it without prejudice and if they
25 eventually sell the property it will come
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1 to --
2 COMMISSIONER DiGENNARO : What happens to
3 the property now. Will they still live there? Do
4 we close our eyes to this . I don ' t have a problem
5 with it . I don ' t know what we are allowed to
6 say and do or not but I think we all --
7 MR. SHILLINGER: We don ' t have a liability
8 if that is what you ' re looking for allowing
9 them to continue to live like that .
10 COMMISSIONER DiGENNARO : We don ' t have to
11 make a motion but we can make this quick. You
12 need staff --
13 MS . HUTTON : Actually we ' ll have to put an
14 item on the agenda for you to actually vote on
15 to tell us to dismiss it .
16 COMMISSIONER DiGENNARO: Okay. My head
17 nod is to say live and let live .
18 MR. SHILLINGER: We ' ll bring it back .
19 MS . HUTTON : We can actually bring this
20 back at the August 19th meeting as an agenda
21 item to dismiss the foreclosure action but we
22 don ' t have to reopen the agenda today.
23 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Can I ask two
24 questions . What happens if these folks -- do
25 they have any heirs . What happens --
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1 MS . GRANGER : There are about five siblings
2 that I am aware of that are on the deed . One of
3 the siblings has heirs ; nephews and nieces and
4 that may be why there was a nephew living there
5 at the time of the fire . He is no longer living
6 there, but you know we also talk about that .
7 Maybe taking the property, taking title to the
8 property and letting these fellows remain on
9 a life estate but it ' s going to create nightmares
10 for the county and then we open ourselves up to
11 more liability .
12 MR . SHILLINGER : But if your question is
„ 13 what happens when they pass eventually and the
14 lien is in place then we have a claim against
15 the property with respect to the estate so when
16 it gets probated we could --
17 COMMISSIONER DiGENNARO : We could then
18 make our decision then whatever it ' s going to
19 be then we hope in another 20 years .
20 COMMISSIONER MURPHY : We could get ours
21 back and they get the rest .
22 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Can I ask my
23 second question, please . Does this set any kind
24 of precedent for turning a blind eye to any other
25 code violation in other situations?
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1 MS . GRANGER : I think every single case
2 you have to evaluate it on its particular
3 merits and hopefully we ' re not going to find
4 any particular situation that is exactly
5 this scenario where two people have lived more
6 than fifty years on the property .
7 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON : I ' ll say this . That
8 area back in Rockland is unique, extremely
9 unique . It ' s been there for a long time and
10 I ' d hate to see the wrath of people if we
11 start cracking down on that community because I
12 mean it would be cruel because most of the people
13 who live there have no visible means of
14 support .
15 COMMISSIONER MURPHY : And not to bring up
16 a sore subject, Commissioner Carruthers , but
17 wouldn ' t it be awful if we did something to old
18 men on Rockland and let Kathy Lee Gifford
19 get away with her --
20 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : What can we do
21 about Kathy Lee Gifford.
22 COMMISSIONER MURPHY : That is long gone but
23 people have memories .
24 MAYOR NEUGENT : One element, at least one
25 element that I see as being left out of this and
g
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1 that is health issues from the standpoint of
2 what are we using for sanitary bathroom
3 facilities , etc . We have got natural resources
4 that we are bound to protect and I have been
5 back there once and didn ' t want to go back again .
6 And it is an absolute -- did you see
7 the movie Apocalypse Now. When they took the boat
8 and went up into the canal that is what I felt
9 like I was in when I went back there . I was
10 expecting to see heads on sticks . I am serious .
11 MS . HUTTON : At this point in time that
12 is the Health Department ' s responsibility.
13 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON : And they have to
14 meet the same standards as anybody else and these
15 are very enterprising, independent people and
16 they probably will meet the 2010 standard.
17 MS . GRANGER: Can I distract your
18 attention to the last two pictures
19 in my brochure here . I don ' t know why but it
20 looks like FKAA went out and put in the sewer
21 hook up at least .
22 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON : They did because
23 we did Shark Key and we were going to leave this
24 area out and make them meet the standards of
25 putting on site systems and do Shark Key so
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1 the Aquaduct decided -- they didn ' t decide, it
2 was part of the County ' s decision .
3 MS . HUTTON : So they should be code
4 enforced on connections .
5 MS . GRANGER : The last picture shows
6 there is some kind of electric hook up to a
7 tree although when we asked for electric
8 bills we didn ' t find any .
9 COMMISSIONER MURPHY : You know, it looks
10 like any trailer park anywhere in south
11 Florida . Look at that picture . I mean it ' s a
12 good picture, Lisa .
13 MAYOR NEUGENT : Getting back to the point
14 that I was making and yes , it is a Department
15 of Health issue but we have a responsibility and
16 obligation to address these particular issues
17 ourselves if we know about them. We can ' t just
18 turn a blind eye to them.
19 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON : Are you talking
20 about the sewer hook ups ?
21 MAYOR NEUGENT : I am talking about the
22 facilities . We are talking about these people
23 living back there .
24 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON : They got
25 laterals to connect to . They haven ' t been
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1 noticed yet .
2 MAYOR NEUGENT : What are they using now?
3 MS . GRANGER : A cess pool that was there
4 I believe blew up or was removed after the
5 fire . I don ' t know what they are using .
6 I know that when my code inspector came back
7 this is what she said . She said that there are
8 lean tos still there . They are filiated old
9 RVs that are there . Things that these brothers
10 have been living in since at least the fire .
11 MAYOR NEUGENT : When I went back there, this
12 is pre fire, there were a lot of people living
13 back there walking around that had no bathroom
14 facilities so I don ' t know if that is still the
15 case but as this progresses --
16 MR . SHILLINGER : It wasn ' t the subject of
17 this code enforcement action . From the pictures
18 and Lisa has more current information than I do,
19 if sewer service is about to be provided there
20 it seems to me that would be the subject of and
21 they haven ' t connected that would be the subject
22 of a future code enforcement action . But the
23 issue in the code enforcement case was the trash
24 and debris , the unsafe structures that at that
25 point there wasn ' t --
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1 MS . HUTTON : There was no central sewer .
2 MR . SHILLINGER : There might have been
3 an OSTES case . I would have to go back and
4 look at the file .
5 MAYOR NEUGENT : There were some other
6 certainly Public Health and also health safety
7 issues . There was electricity run wires that
8 were exposed certainly not up to code and, you
9 no, I don ' t know exactly what our --
10 MR . SHILLINGER : We have the option, if there
11 is a life safety issue out there we have the
12 option instead of going through the routine
13 code enforcement where you get a fine, they are
14 never going to be able to pay . Going to court
15 and basically getting an order like the one we
16 resolved, the other one in wherein if you don ' t
17 fix this problem you got to go answer to the
18 Judge or go to jail . And that -- when you are
19 dealing with folks with no money they sometimes
20 find the money to do the bare minimum necessary
21 to satisfy the court ' s obligations . They don ' t
22 have to go to jail .
23 MAYOR NEUGENT : We sound like our soon to
24 be appointed Supreme Court Justice when she was
25 talking about establishing policy outside of
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1 law and well, let ' s do this .
2 MR . SHILLINGER : It ' s within the parameters
3 of law . You have different options in trying
4 to enforce the code . And that is one of the ones
5 when it ' s available to us regardless of who the
6 person is if that is a more appropriate
7 circumstance .
8 COMMISSIONER MURPHY : But what we are
9 dealing with today is the foreclosure .
10 MR. SHILLINGER : Yes .
11 COMMISSIONER MURPHY : Okay. I think you
12 have your head nods, right Mario?
13 COMMISSIONER DiGENNARO : You got my head
14 nod, yes . And I think on the other side, I
15 don ' t know . There might be a way somebody from
16 the County could research to assist the people
17 before they get in trouble with the wastewater
18 system. It might be a better thing for us to
19 be little more proactive in this to help them.
20 We know a problem is coming, we can do something .
21 I don ' t know if there is some non profit or
22 somebody that can help these people .
23 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON : Habitat for
24 Humanity could be helping them.
25 COMMISSIONER DiGENNARO : Send Roman out
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1 there . He will take care of everything .
2 MS . HUTTON : You want to close the
3 closed session and reopen the public session?
4 MAYOR NEUGENT : Yes . .
5 MS . HUTTON : The closed session is closed .
6 ( Proceedings were concluded) .
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25 CERTIFICATE
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ij
2 STATE OF FLORIDA
3 COUNTY OF MONROE
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5 I , Lisa Roeser, certify that I was authorized
6 to and did stenographically report the foregoing
7 proceedings and that the transcript is a true and
8 complete record of my stenographic notes .
9 DATED this 21st day of July, 2009 .
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14 Lisa Roeser
15 Registered Professional Reporter
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