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Item E1OUNTY SO�MONROE KEY WESTLORIDA 33040 (305)294-4641 Suzanne A. Hutton, County Attorney" Robert B. Shillinger, Chief Assistant County Attorney ** Pedro J. Mercado, Assistant County Attorney ** Susan M. Grimsley, Assistant County Attorney ** Natileene W. Cassel, Assistant County Attorney** Cynthia L. Hall, Assistant County Attorney ** Christine Limbert-Barrows, Assistant County Attorney** Derek V. Howard, Assistant County Attorney Lisa Granger, Assistant County Attorney Steven T. Williams, Assistant County Attorney ** Board Certified in City, County & Local Govt. law August 2, 2013 Amy Heavilin, Clerk of the Court Sixteenth Judicial Circuit, State of Florida Monroe County Courthouse, Suite 101 Key West, Florida 33040 Attn.: Vitia Fernandez, Deputy Clerk Re: Monroe County v Utility Board of the City of Key West Case No.: CA-K-12-549 Dear Vitia: BOARD OF CDllNTY COMMISSIONERS Mayor George Neugent, District 4 Mayor Pro Tem Danny Kolhage, District 1 David Rice, District 4 Heather Carruthers, District 3 Sylvia J. Murphy, District 5 Office of the County Attorney 1111 I P Street, Suite 408 Key West, FL 33040 (305) 292-3470 — Phone (305) 292-3516 — Fax Please find enclosed herewith a transcript of a closed session of the Monroe County Board of County Commissioners on the above -referenced matter. The closed session took place at the May 22, 2012 BOCC meeting in Key West, Florida. The above -referenced litigation has concluded, and this transcript can be added to the public records on the BOCC meeting of May 22, 2012. Very truly yo , Laurie Dastugu�—' Paralegal, Litigation Department Enclosure: Transcript of Closed Session on May 22, 2012 I BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF MONROE COUNTY ATTORNEY -CLIENT CLOSED SESSION TUESDAY, MAY 22, 2012 Re: Monroe County v. Utility Board of the City of Key West, Florida, Case No. CA K 12-549 COUNTY COMMISSIONERS: David Rice, Mayor Kim Wigington, County Commissioner Heather Carruthers, County Commissioner George Neugent, County Commissioner Sylvia J. Muryphy, County Commissioner STAFF: !•�; t :t .ilk. Robert B. Shillinger, Jr., Chief Assistant County Attorney Susan Grimsley, Assistant County Attorney Roman Gastesi, County Administrator TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS Proceedings of the Board of County Commissioners of Monroe County Attorney -Client Closed Session, at the Harvey Government Center, Key West, Monroe County, Florida, on the 22nd day of May, 2012, commencing at approximately 9:30 a.m. and concluding at approximately 10:26 a.m., as reported by Susan L. McTaggart, Court Reporter and Notary Public, State of Florida at Large. All Keys Reporting Olde Town Centre 9701 Overseas Highway Marathon 305-289-1201 600 Whitehead Street Suite 207 Key West 305-294-2601 All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 P R O C E E D I N G S MAYOR RICE: We will close the open session and enter into the closed session. I have a little thing here I'm supposed to read. A closed attorney -client session pursuant to Section 286.011(8), Florida Statutes, will now be held. It is estimated that this meeting will take approximately thirty minutes. The persons attending the meeting will be the County Commissioners, County Administrator Roman Gastesi, Chief Assistant County Attorney Bob Shillinger, Jr., Assistant County Attorney Derek Howard, Assistant County Attorney Cynthia Hall, and a certified court reporter. Since the law prohibits any other person from being present at the closed session, the Commissioners, the County Administrator, the attorneys for the County, and the court reporter will now remain in this meeting room, and all other persons are required to leave the room. When the closed session is over, we will re -convene and re -open the public meeting. The public meeting is now closed. MR. SHILLINGER: Before you close it, to correct the script, Assistant County Attorney Susan Grimsley's also in the room. She was on the advertisement of attorneys who would be included in the closed session, so she is All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 13 14 NVIN 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 here and she will be allowed to remain in there. Mr. Howard and Ms. Hall have other duties today, so they won't be here. Just so the record is clear. MAYOR RICE: Thank you for clarifying that. And we will now close the public meeting. MR. SHILLINGER: For the record, this meeting is being held upon the request of myself, Bob Shillinger, Chief Assistant County Attorney, who announced at a prior BOCC meeting held on May 16, 2012, that I needed advice in the matter of Monroe County v. Utility Board of the City of Key West, doing business as Keys Energy Services. It's Circuit Court Case No. CA K 12-549. At that meeting the board approved holding today's closed session and public notice was given through the public announcement at the meeting held on May 16, 2012, and through the publication of the special meeting agenda on the BOCC's website. For the record and the benefit of the court reporter, each of us will now state our name and position starting with the Commission. COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS: Heather Carruthers, Monroe County Commissioner, District 3. COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: Kim Wigington, County Commissioner, District 1. MAYOR RICE: David Rice, County Commissioner, All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 4 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 District 4. COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: George Neugent, County Commissioner, District 2. COMMISSIONER MURPHY: Sylvia Murphy, County Commissioner, District 5. MR. SHILLINGER: Bob Shillinger, Chief Assistant County Attorney. MR. GASTESI: Roman Gastesi, County Administrator. MS. GRIMSLEY: Susan Grimsley, Assistant County Attorney. MR. SHILLINGER: All right. Just a reminder, we will only be discussing settlement negotiations and strategy related to litigation expenditures. We cannot take any decisive action at this meeting. We can only provide information and direction to the attorneys. Any decisions this board makes concerning this case must be done in a meeting open and in the public. All right. So let me start this off. A couple of things. It's a little unusual the way we got here. I wanted to make sure that we were clear that in order to have a closed session you had to have a pending action, and so that's why I asked you close to the end of business on Wednesday to go ahead and authorize us to file it. We filed it in time for the Clerk to accept it on Wednesday, and that allowed us to have a pending All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 action so we could then later in our BOCC session ask for this closed meeting. The reason that we want to hold this meeting is to go over some of the pros and cons of going forward. If I ever had to give credit to Andy Tobin for anything, he did make a wise observation at the meeting the other day, which is we should approach this decision now as if we hadn't actually filed. Don't make the decision that we just filed last week determinative of how we go. A little background. About a year ago, a little over a year ago, we filed a declaratory judgment action to tee up the question of can the County's Comp Plan and LDRs, one, prevent Keys Energy from going forward with stringing the line out to the properties, and two, assuming it was strung or assuming that they did have that power, that authority, could the County then prohibit the local homeowners from hooking up to that. That case was dismissed by Judge Audlin. He ruled that he had no jurisdiction to hear it, no subject matter jurisdiction, and that subject matter jurisdiction rested at the Public Service Commission. That decision's on appeal to the Third District Court of Appeals. The Public Service Commission has an item on its agenda where they're going to take up a complaint that was filed by All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Bob Reynolds, one of the property owners on No Name Key, who is the one who actually moved to dismiss the suit. In the Complaint against Keys Energy, we've taken steps to intervene in that. Now, that was what's happened in the past. What's changed since then is that Keys Energy has entered into a contract with the property owners' association and given us the heads -up that it intends to go forward. So they're not going to wait for the court system to work itself out and answer these questions academically or, you know, give us an answer in the abstract. They're going to push the issue and move forward unless somebody does something to stop them to go ahead and string the lines. The contract, as I understand it, includes a provision that Keys Energy is going to be defended and held harmless by the property owners' association for any litigation costs and if ultimately the County's ordinance prevails that they would pay to have all of that removed. Now, whether that's actually enforceable or not and by whom remains to be seen. But the question we have today is do we want to go forward with enforcement action today as our ordinance stands on the books today, which has not been invalidated by Judge Audlin's prior ruling, it is still a valid ordinance that would prohibit the extension of lines in the Coastal Barrier Resource System Overlay All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West LIM 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 pion 21 22 23 24 25 Zone. Now, there was some information that was provided late last week or the middle of last week that called into question whether the interpretations that have been given and the language really met with the original intent of the technical documents in the Comp Plan. Christine and Derek have spent the better part of last weekend looking through that, hashing that out, and I got to tell you, it's a close question. What was the original intent. Now, in terms of what does the ordinance say, the ordinance says what it says, and the plain language is power, utilities, are not to be extended in the Coastal Barrier Resource System Overlay District. So what, the question that you need to decide is do we want to go forward and try and enforce that ordinance? It is on the books. Again, it hasn't been invalidated. Now, I got to tell you, there's some challenges in doing that. Through the random assignment of judges, they have a, you know, basically a random assignment, we drew Judge Audlin again when we filed this action. So chances are we're going to hear the exact same argument as before, that I don't have jurisdiction. Perhaps his view has changed a little bit. I don't know. Maybe he'd be willing to entertain a temporary injunction to at All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Px! PAVE least let the appellate court sort it out and the Public Service Commission sort it out. Because the circumstances have changed. They're moving forward in the face of a facially valid ordinance. But there's some risks associated with doing that, and I wanted you to be fully aware of that and I didn't want to have this discussion out in the public, you know, have it outside of a closed session, because I don't want to infringe on the limited attorney -client privilege that we do have and contribute to the public discourse some of the downsides that may put us at a disadvantage in the litigation. And there are some risks with going forward. For one, since we can be sure that the other side, the people that are working to put power on No Name Key, will attack our Complaint in a motion to dismiss. They'll raise the doctrine of res judicata. This issue has already been decided. They will inevitably try and work some sort of claim that will try and get them to recoup their attorneys' fees either through suggesting that our action is filed in bad faith in light of the prior ruling or that we have tortiously interfered with their contract with Keys Energy. I think our worst case scenario would be that if we were actually able to convince Judge Audlin that we were correct at the trial court level and then lost at the ultimate appellate level so we had an All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters -- (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 injunction and then the injunction was dissolved because it was found to be improper, and then the statute that allows for the costs associated with having a wrongfully issued injunction dissolved are taxable against the County. Typically what you would do, as a government you don't necessarily have to post a bond when you seek injunctive relief. I would think in this case if we can get a bond that's low enough, if the court will issue a bond, that would be the better option because that would cap our damages at whatever amount the bond is as opposed to an unlimited cap that comes about if there is no bond. So the fight in that, assuming we do get that injunction, is going to be over how much the bond is. All this is saying if we go forward we face a reasonable prospect of ending up having to write a check at the end of the day. We face, in my judgment, as equally reasonable a prospect of being vindicated. I can't give you any better odds than that, that I think it's as likely as not that we're going to win as not win. We have some issues we have to overcome, including the prior ruling and the court going ahead and saying look, I've already ruled on this. I'm going to dismiss this. That allows them to go out, there is no impediment, they string the lines, and then we're back here with them coming to apply for building permits and All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 tells 25 we fight the fight at that day. I think that once the line is struck realistically a circuit court judge may be more inclined to overturn a permit decision that denies them the permits than one that is, you know, if the lines hadn't been struck. So I wanted to share some of these potential downsides with you, explain some of the risks, and hopefully answer any questions you have before we get some direction later today as to do you want us to go forward and attempt to enforce the ordinance. MAYOR RICE: Commissioner Wigington? COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: I have a couple of questions and some comments. After you and Christine talked to me, I think it was Thursday, and the issue had to do with developed versus undeveloped, I got my box of files from No Name Key going back to when the previous Commissioner was there. The more I thought about this issue after I talked with both you and Christine, I thought that this had been discussed before, and sure enough, throughout those documents undeveloped versus developed had been discussed and there was a letter issued from the Department of the Interior in 2010 that pretty much cleared up the issue because the pro -electric group kept confusing the issue with people about developed and undeveloped, basically saying developed meant in the aggregate and not the individual. If you All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 chose to build a house after COBRA Act, which was in 1982, it doesn't count as developed. It's still undeveloped. You've built in an undeveloped area, so it was aggregate, not individual. I went back and read some of the Susan's backup in 2010 in December, and I clearly could see that after the act, after the COBRA, after the CBRS, that we went through a process 20 years ago, I guess it was, and set up this area, set up our Comp Plan based on public hearings and then developed the LDRs, fought it in court, well, it had been fought in court two or three times, and I consider it validated in court twice and in the field the third time. The DCA approved it. The Governor Administration Commission approved it. And my question is if we do a 180 right now and I was on the other side I'd come after this County with everything I had. MR. SHILLINGER: When you said the other side, which side do you mean? COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: Well, the side against our Comp Plan. The pro -electric is the one that I'm considering wanting to do something against the Comp Plan. I would come against the County and say I want damages for 20 years without electricity. You should have never, if you're going to turncoat now you're going to pay for what I've had to deal with for the last 20 All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 years. When you say there's been an appeal by Reynolds, is he appealing the injunction, is he appealing the Public Service Commission? MR. SHILLINGER: No, no, no. Ms. Putney and the County has joined in and been joined by the appellate court as an appellant, we've appealed Judge Audlin's decision. That's the appeal. Separate from that there is a petition filed with the Public Service Commission by Mr. Reynolds against Keys Energy saying that they're entitled to service under their territorial agreement that Keys Energy entered into with the Co-op in the Upper Keys and that the Public Service Commission has jurisdiction to enforce that territorial agreement, and in that agreement it says that Keys Energy will provide service throughout its territory, and they're within their territory. There's some flaws in that argument that our attorneys that we retained that do Public Service Commission work have articulated. But that is what Reynolds is trying to do. And I think Keys Energy has shifted, quite frankly, from where they were before, which is we'll work with the County and let the courts decide it to now they've just decided we're going forward. We don't want to stand in the way of this, and All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1z 13 14 18 19 20 ��= WM 23 24 25 13 we're going forward. COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: Has Reynolds filed anything about our appeal? MR. SHILLINGER: He's moved to dismiss it. He has also, he or the Public Service Commission may ask the Third to stay the appeal and relinquish jurisdiction to the Public Service Commission, let the Public Service Commission go first to decide whether it has jurisdiction or not. COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: Judge Audlin recently heard this case. MR. SHILLINGER: Yes. COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: Isn't that a reason for him to recuse himself? MR. SHILLINGER: No. COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: Is that a reason for us to ask him to recuse himself? MR. SHILLINGER: Unfortunately, adverse rulings from a trial judge are not sufficient grounds to ask a judge to recuse himself. It's not legally sufficient. We would, it would be summarily denied. COMMISSIONER MURPHY: Could he if he wished? MR. SHILLINGER: He could if he wished. COMMISSIONER MURPHY: It would be a reason if he wanted to do it? But, you know, this is, what is it, the All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 1 2 3 P 5 6 I.- 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 14 definition of insanity to do the same thing all over again and expect a different answer. COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: Hold that thought while we go through this discussion. COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: Now, we have an injunction filed against us to enforce our Comp Plan? MR. SHILLINGER: We have a demand by Ms. Putney that's filed under the Florida Environmental Protection Act which says that, it's basically a demand letter. It says if you don't enforce it I will then go to court and get an injunction to force you to enforce your code, and she also would have standing to actually seek her own injunction against Keys Energy if we took no action. COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: Are you referring to Ms. Putney as the solar community? MR. SHILLINGER: Yes. COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: Okay. MR. SHILLINGER: Right. And that came from her lawyer, Mr. Hartsell. COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: And Mr. Reynolds as the pro -electric? Or are there two -- MR. SHILLINGER: There's two factions of the pro -electric. Apparently Mr. Reynolds is a, likes to do things his way, from what I can read, and there's a divide between him and some of the other pro -electric All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 folks. It seems that the No Name Key Property Owners' Association is jointly working together and they're represented by Andy Tobin. Mr. Reynolds is off on his own, represented by Bart Smith and Greg Oropeza. Interestingly, at the motion to dismiss in front of Judge Audlin, Tobin argued against the dismissal and saying that, you know, so 42 of the property owners that were out there, Alicia Putney's lawyer, Bob Hartsell, representing the solar community, Andy Tobin representing the pro -power all except for the Reynoldses, the County, all argued against dismissal. Only Mr. Reynolds asked for a dismissal. So there was definitely a dichotomy between the pro -power and Mr. Reynolds as his own independent player there. COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: And this is just a yes and no question. Has Keys Energy filed for easements or asked for easements, requested easements from Fish and Wildlife? MR. SHILLINGER: I don't know what they've asked for from Fish and Wildlife. What they've told, what they stated from us is they believe they have all necessary permits and easements, so I guess you could assume from that that they think that they have, but I don't know that they have or not. COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: Okay. That's it. Thank All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters -- (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 16 01 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you. COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS: But Fish and Wildlife wrote a letter saying that they didn't see that the extension of utilities would hinder the habitat. MR. SHILLINGER: That is true. COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS: I had the same, one of the same questions that Commissioner Wigington had. One of them was about developed versus undeveloped and at what point in time does that kick in. I think I asked you about that on the phone, you know, anything built post-1982, does that not qualify because of the date that we're talking about? MR. SHILLINGER: Well, there's a key distinction here. We're having to interpret our own code and what does developed and undeveloped mean in our own code. Our definition is somewhat similar to the federal code. The federal code for the Coastal Barrier Resource System Act, I would certainly feel comfortable arguing, you know, that's what we were trying to import into our code when we did it, and if you look at that, it includes the potential for a few man-made structures as long as those structures don't significantly impede the geomorphic and ecological processes. So even under the federal system, which I believe is the reason why when, even in the federal system they allow for limited development, which All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 12 13 00 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 is why I think that Fish and Wildlife Service when it issued its letter in July 2010 to Mr. Latini that said even though there's some structures there you're still within the Coastal Barrier Resource System Act. They're not changing that based on the existence of that. Our issue here is what is the intent of our code and what does our code say, and our code is close to the federal code. It doesn't really define what undeveloped means. So we may get into a fight. If we get down to a fight over the interpretation, if the court says it's not clear on its face, then there's going to be testimony, what was the intent, what were the intent of the drafters, and when you get into those types of fights, that's when we would have a potential issue, you know, they know about it, they've found it, and you get down to the technical documents and the maps that mapped out parts of the developed versus undeveloped portions of the CBRS, and that's where we may end up having our most difficulty in trying to enforce the ordinance. If we get by the plain meaning of the ordinance. COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS: So are you saying that the intent of our language was to make that distinction between undeveloped and developed parcels within the CBRS? MR. SHILLINGER: I think that that is one reading of All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 18 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 PAS the documents, that that was the intent, to make a distinction. And that is a reasonable one. Now, ultimately it's our code and ultimately it gets to be, under the code it's interpreted by the Planning Director, Growth Management Division, and ultimately you guys can adopt an interpretation that you want to have seen. So just because the federal, I guess my point is just because the federal code contains an allowance of some minor development and still allow it to be in the CBRS, we may not, that may not carry the day for us. If we get past the plain meaning of our code and get down into the intent documents, a court might look at that original map or the original technical document, the map that Christine presented to you all with the little d's on it that shows that there perhaps was an intent to distinguish between developed and undeveloped. COMMISSIONER MURPHY: But distinguished via what we know those two words to mean? MAYOR RICE: Sylvia, you don't have the floor. George has got it now. COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS: Yeah. I'm not quite done. It still wasn't really clear to me, because I'm hearing two different things. I'm hearing that if you really do study all the backup and the initial crafting of this language, the intent was no power on No Name Key, period. All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 The intent was not, oh, some power in some places. MR. SHILLINGER: That's, I mean, that's certainly the prevailing argument, and that's the one that, you know, the department has gone with for the last 20 years. When I say the department, Growth Management and Planning. And under the code it's their job to interpret what that means. I think Christine took a fresh look at it and she had what initially looked like an aha moment, that maybe it wasn't that, and now that she's gone back and looked some more she's a little more comfortable saying that as of last night she was telling me that she was comfortable with the long-standing historical interpretation of the code. COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS: Okay. I had the same question about can't we just request a different judge if this judge has already, but I just have one other question, and it might be outside of the specific details of what we determine to do today, but I've met with people on both sides of this issue and I think the concern is in preserving the character of No Name Key, the solitude and the natural vistas out there. Now, that solitude is currently interrupted by, you know, generators sometimes, but visually the place still looks undeveloped, if you will. How much money is Reynolds and the property, how All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 20 much are they spending on this litigation, and wouldn't it be better suited to try to negotiate something where they underground those utilities? MR. SHILLINGER: That's, I mean, I can certainly make that approach. COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS: I think that that's a compromise that from my understanding both sides could live with except for the price tag. But at this point how much money have they thrown at this already? MR. SHILLINGER: You know, I wouldn't know. You generally don't know until you end up losing and having to -- COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS: To pay? MR. SHILLINGER: To pay. But I would think that combined between Reynolds and the solar community in the last couple of years they've probably clearly gone over a hundred thousand. Now, whether they've gone -- and I'm not an engineer. I know that the costs of undergrounding are extensive. COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS: Yeah. They said 600,000. MR. GASTESI: Six hundred is what they've put in so far or what they have available so far. COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS: I thought it was 600 to underground, too. MR. GASTESI: No. I think that's the overground. All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 21 MR. SHILLINGER: Yeah. The contract to let it out, yeah, that is a number that's about six hundred. We could approach that. We don't have the ability to force that, but as a compromise solution I can certainly raise that and see whether that, you know, whether they're willing to put up the money to do that. I think the question I'm going to have to be ready to answer is, well, is the County willing to throw up some money, too, on that. COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS: Well, if we could estimate how much we're spending on legal fees maybe it would be worth it. MR. SHILLINGER: And I think we would probably need to know how much it would cost to put it underground. I could call Mr. Finnegan over at Keys Energy. Perhaps he can give us a back -of -a -napkin estimate so we could at least know what we're talking about. COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS: It's just an idea to break through this. MR. SHILLINGER: Right. And it's a settlement, it's within the realm of what we can talk about. It's a potential settlement strategy. MAYOR RICE: George? COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: So now it's not about electricity, it's about esthetics. But starting off, All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 22 notwithstanding the caveats that you pointed out at the very beginning, which puts us in a lawsuit using taxpayer moneys to defend some personal issues here, I have to the question, why would we involve ourselves with potential litigation when you said that maybe this is not the appropriate time, if I understood you correctly, maybe the appropriate time to do this is over the code and hooking up the electricity, even though I see a lot of downsides to that situation, also. MR. SHILLINGER: There are downsides in both areas, yeah. COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: But I have to ask why because the Coastal Barrier Resource System discourages development in these areas by disallowing subsidized flood insurance, so that's an in -place discouragement for development in the Coastal Barrier Resource System from the very beginning. What has changed over the years during these back -and -forth arguments is that when I first came on the Commission, 70 percent or more of the people did not want electricity out there. U.S. Fish and Wildlife had not weighed into the argument here, where they now have said that there's no negative impacts to habitat and/or the species themselves. So why are we taking, when the citizens themselves could be spending their money to put in place the injunction to enforce All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 12 13 14 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 23 what's now in the books as our codes, which can be easily changed, the Comp Plan says discourage, it doesn't say prohibit, the Land Development Regulations say that we prohibit the hooking up, I can't understand that, how we weigh in on this with the potential with what you said while the whole while spending money on defending a suit, a civil argument between two warring factions here. Why are we interjecting ourselves in the middle of this? MR. SHILLINGER: Because it's our code. COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS: It's our Comp Plan. MR. SHILLINGER: And our Comp Plan. COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: Well, but the judge has ruled that that's not the case, that this would be a, by him taking the position that he took that he doesn't have jurisdiction, it's left to the Public Service Commission in his opinion as to who has jurisdiction. MR. SHILLINGER: Right. COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: And I think I know how that's going to shake out. MR. SHILLINGER: I think that, I mean, it is our code and it's our Comp Plan. We believe Judge Audlin erred when he ruled the way he did, he was wrong on the law, he was misled by the -- COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: How do you think he's going to rule when it comes back before him this time? All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. SHILLINGER: He's going to rule the same way, probably, unless we get the appellate decision first. But I think we're going to have to deal with that. We're not going to get -- he's going to rule the same way. COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: So does that invalidate at that point in time our -- MR. SHILLINGER: Appeal? COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: Appeal? MR. SHILLINGER: No. COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: No? MR. SHILLINGER: No. What we will have to deal with is why are you back in front of me? Finish up the appeal and come back. That's a very valid argument that they're going to have to raise, that they're going to raise. You can be sure of that. You know, this is not an easy call for you. This is do you want to enforce your code and stop at least the changing of the landscape out there, take that attempt to do that, or do you want to wait and see how things play out in the appellate court? COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: Now, how do you stand, Bob, on the points that these people are willing to pay for their electricity? And I've got people that I know and I'll call friends on both sides of this issue out there, and I really hate being put in the middle and have been and the Commission has been put in the middle of this for All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 25 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 years. MR. SHILLINGER: Right. COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: But how do we make a case when Fish and Wildlife has weighed in on this, the Coastal Barrier Resource System discourages development by not allowing subsidized flood insurance, how do we stand before a court and make a case? I know it's our code. MR. SHILLINGER: It's our code, it's our, you know, community character, those type of arguments that you always have when you're talking about local regulation. I mean, if your argument is, if you're asking are there other discouragements to development in our code that's out there, absolutely. COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: We now have a Tier System in place. MR. SHILLINGER: Right. So if your argument is, and that's why I'm trying to figure out where you're coming from, if the argument is if we don't do this, is this going to open the door to development on No Name Key? No. The Tier System takes care of that, the CBRS takes care of that. We still have this provision in our code. COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: Why would we with even downside risks engage ourselves in defending our code when the residents -- because for me this is a civil All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 26 im 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 matter between two warring factions on No Name Key. Whether I have an esthetic desire for underground utilities as opposed to raised poles, to me that's a subjective point of view that now we're saying that, well, we're not opposed to electricity, we're just opposed to the -- MR. SHILLINGER: The appearance of electricity. COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS: What is character? COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: It's subjective. COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: Well, and Fish and Wildlife said the poles above ground would not endanger the habitat. They didn't say underground and all of that digging, and they didn't say that meant they gave easements. I'm not a lawyer, but I think they're prohibited from giving the easements. COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: I think if you propose an underground utility Bob Reynolds is going to be on you like a duck on a June bug. COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: Well, and I think they're going to say why have you held us up for this long, for 20 years, and what's our liability if we make a 180? MR. SHILLINGER: I mean, you have a legislative act that hasn't been overturned. The law changed. I don't think there's necessarily liability for the past 20 years by the people that are willing to get the electricity. All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 27 We can attempt to resolve all of our pending litigation with a waiver of claims. COMMISSIONER MURPHY: What law changed? MR. SHILLINGER: If you decided to change the ordinance. COMMISSIONER MURPHY: Oh, if. Okay. You put it that it had already changed. Okay, number one, Fish and Wildlife, everybody's saying Fish and Wildlife said yes, go ahead, there's no danger. That's not exactly what they said. They said as per what you submitted they see no problem with it. Problems may occur when this thing gets going. Audlin says go to the Public Service Commission. This isn't really about Public Service and what they can do. To me it is something that has been in place for many, many years. Judge Payne's ruling from years and years ago flat-out says you do not have the right to have electricity on that island. You bought knowing that. You do not have the right to it per the County's rules and regulations. And the developed or undeveloped I think really and truly is quite clear. They're not going by our definition. They're going by the federal definition for the Coastal Barrier System. It is undeveloped, and that's it. All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 28 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 But who's going to argue this in court for us? MR. SHILLINGER: Derek. COMMISSIONER MURPHY: It will be local? It would be held in Key West if Audlin will hear it? MR. SHILLINGER: Hmm-hmm. COMMISSIONER MURPHY: Okay. I don't think it's a case of aboveground/underground. I don't think it's a case of them against us. I think it's simply that people bought at a lesser price in an area where they thought they could force electricity, force public utilities, and they can't. They've tried it over and over and over again, and for some reason it's buy a piece of swamp and then argue yourself silly that it isn't a swamp and want to build a house on it. It's the same idea. They bought it at a lesser price, and now they want to change the rules. There are rules. It's within Monroe County. And I say go ahead with the appeal. COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: Is this about the appeal or the injunction? MR. SHILLINGER: No. This is about the new action that we filed. It's an injunction that we'd be seeking. The appeal is already being handled. MAYOR RICE: But what we're doing is saying hold it, let's stop until we hear from our appeal? MR. SHILLINGER: Right. All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 29 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MAYOR RICE: Which seems reasonable in a way. I have a little bit of problem with some of the -- not that I don't believe you, because I do believe you. And what you're saying if I can encapsulate it is we're flipping a coin? It's 50/50? MR. SHILLINGER: In terms of our chances of outcome? MAYOR RICE: Right. So we're spending what could be a lot of taxpayer dollars. Personally I wouldn't enter into a lawsuit on a 50/50 projection of outcome. It's too much risk. What I think I am seeing, and I don't have a whole lot to say about this because I think it's already been said, it's a complex issue. But what I think I'm seeing is incrementally these people have moved and are moving toward getting electricity, and my prediction is they're going to get it. At what cost to Monroe County? I think that's really the only thing we're dealing with right now, is at what cost to Monroe County? Now, that has nothing to do with my personal position out there. I'm like, I think, everybody else up here. We've all got friends out there on both sides of this issue, and boy, if there was a way to extricate Monroe County from the middle of that, I would vote for that a hundred percent. MR. SHILLINGER: And that was the original intent of the dec action. All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MAYOR RICE: I know. MR. SHILLINGER: And then Mr. Reynolds came in and threw a monkey wrench into it by interjecting the Public Service Commission issue, which is a decidedly more pro -power forum. COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: And how are they going to decide whether we have to change our LDRs for them to connect? MR. SHILLINGER: They would, they would issue an order that would, essentially -- COMMISSIONER MURPHY: Who is "they"? MR. SHILLINGER: The Public Service Commission. As a result of their proceeding that's before them with Mr. Reynolds against Keys Energy, which we've moved to intervene in, they would issue an order, this is, I'm not saying this will happen, this is the theory of how that would happen, they would enter an order that would find that they had jurisdiction over the issue of the extension of the line and the connection to that line, and then if we then didn't issue a permit consistent with that the people that were trying to hook up would take that order as part of a mandamus action and get a court order forcing us to issue them the building permit. COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS: So if the Public Service Commission said that Keys Energy has to bring the power All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 31 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 there's really no way for us to get in the way? MR. SHILLINGER: Yeah. I mean, we can appeal that decision to the Supreme Court but, you know, assuming we've exhausted that, if that is the decision, that Keys Energy can run the lines over more than just, Keys Energy has the right under state law to run lines over public right-of-ways. And that's part of the issue here, is what is a public right-of-way, because some of the roads at issue there are not public right-of-ways. They're easements. The easements are, they're private roads, and the easement is for -- THE WITNESS: Under whose ownership? MR. SHILLINGER: Various private ownerships including, and some public ownership, including the County. The predecessor in interest to our easements, to our properties, entered into an access easement that allows use across our property for ingress and egress and all other purposes for the lawful enjoyment of the property. It's pretty broad language. Larry Erskine from the Land Authority and Derek and I went through and focused on the language on that, and that issue of the easement on that section of the island, the easement that's covered by that language is pretty broad. COMMISSIONER MURPHY: I thought it meant for surveying purposes. All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 32 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. SHILLINGER: That's the first I've heard of that. MAYOR RICE: If I could, I think we've pretty much beat this horse to death. COMMISSIONER MURPHY: No. I'm not clone. MAYOR RICE: I think we've pretty much beat this horse to death, and I'd like us to be able to give Mr. Shillinger direction, because we've got a great deal of work to do today. But go ahead, Sylvia. COMMISSIONER MURPHY: Oh, thank you. I just want to say that I think what we're doing and why we're spending County money, tax dollars, et cetera, is to, people purchase land, people build, people do things in this county -- forget No Name Key. Just take the county as a whole. People behave in this county, they spend their money, they make their life based on the rules we have. I think their sense of security is that we will enforce those rules, that someone cannot come into the middle of your neighborhood and build a motorcycle shop, that someone cannot come into your business and decide to completely surround you with something else. They depend on us to enforce these rules because they make their plans concerning this. And I think if we throw in the towel that we're doing a big disservice, not just to No Name Key, but to the entire All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 33 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 county. What faith are they going to have that we will stick up for them when the next bully comes down the road? And that I think is why I am more than willing to go ahead with this and see where it goes. COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: Bob, I have one question. Have you emphasized enough the Florida Statutes on the books concerning this particular issue? Because Suzanne, and I'm going back in memory, has sensed some problems with the existing Florida Statutes and the jurisdiction that they give utility rights. MR. SHILLINGER: Right. COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: Are we bumping heads with that? MR. SHILLINGER: We are in some respects as long as they're within a public right-of-way, a right-of-way that's dedicated to the public. And again, that was part of the declaratory judgment action that's been waylaid because of the Public Service Commission issue, was interpret these statutes to say whether they apply with respect to rights -of -way that don't meet the statutory definition, i.e., platted subdivision streets of public right-of-way. You're looking at Chapter 366, which gives the utilities the ability to be, to run their lines, Chapter 380, which exempts them from our permitting within the public right-of-way, but neither of those All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 34 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 define what is a public right-of-way. If you go to the County road section and you go to the platting section of the code you have these unanswered questions of law that make this less clear, that muddle the issue, and that's part of the reason we wanted to go to circuit court and get those questions answered. COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: How far down the road -- just one last question. How far down the road could this turn into a protracted legal litigation that's going to really generate some big dollars on both sides of the issue? MR. SHILLINGER: If we get past a motion to dismiss, which I'm sure will be filed, if we go forward, if we get direction we'll have to come back in an open session and you'll have to give us direction to go forward. We can't just take a head nod because there's obviously a clear division of opinion here. So if we get direction to go forward we'll go ahead and serve it, we'll try and stop the running of the lines through the intergovernmental dispute resolution process, if that's not going to happen, then we'll move for a temporary injunction to freeze the Keys Energy from going forward, and I expect the pro -power people will move to intervene in the case somewhere along the way, then if not sooner, and they will move to dismiss on that grounds, that we've already been through this, the court's already ruled that it has All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 35 1 no jurisdiction, res judicata, all the bad arguments. If done in terms 2 we lose at that ground, then I think we're 3 of the line's going to get drawn and we'll go forward 4 with that and we'll end up having to fight over the 5 issuance of permits or not. If we win, that's when we 6 have the potential of this becoming a very long and 7 litigated drawn -out case. So we should know, within the 8 next couple of months there should be a dividing point as 9 to, you know, is this going to be a quick -over or is this 10 going to be a long protracted one. 11 MAYOR RICE: I just want to ask one question just 12 for clarification. So you're saying if we proceed with 13 this legal action that we put on the table last Wednesday 14 that's buying us a couple of months and then we will have 15 a breaking point that we can determine what the future 16 may hold? 17 MR. SHILLINGER: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: That was halfway my 19 question because I was saying this is about the 20 injunction, not about the appeal? 21 MR. SHILLINGER: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: We're still in the appeal. 23 MR. SHILLINGER: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: This is about the 25 injunction. I'm not sure how Keys Energy is going to All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 13 14 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 36 separate federal funds from the electricity that's run to No Name Key. That's a hurdle, they're going to have to either put the ratepayers at risk because you can't say, well, this electricity wasn't generated with any federal funds because Florida Power & Light receives a lot of federal funds, they acted against their attorneys' advice by moving forward with this and had to sign a contract after that or they could have been held liable, I'm told, I think I was told that by you, so they really didn't have a choice on this last vote. I think they are putting us in the position of acting -- MR. SHILLINGER: Oh, they've definitely punted this onto your shoulders. COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: Right. Absolutely. They've put it in our lap to be able to do something with because they've gotten themselves in a bind. But this is only about the injunction, right? MR. SHILLINGER: Yes. COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: And by having the injunction we can decide again in two or three months depending on how that goes. And are you positive you can't ask Audlin to recuse himself? Because I'm going to make an observation here. MR. SHILLINGER: I've been through that issue before. All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 37 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: I saw the change in confidence based on Audlin being the judge. And this is about an issue. It shouldn't be about the judge. He should be able to recuse himself simply by our asking him to recuse himself. MR. SHILLINGER: There is long-standing Florida case law that says that the prior adverse rulings is legally insufficient grounds to recuse a judge. Otherwise the first couple, you know, you'd get the first couple rulings in the case, every litigant who had lost those would be asking for a court to recuse themselves. COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: Even if he was involved with the case with Payne? MR. SHILLINGER: He sat as a Special Master in that case. COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: That's not enough, either? No. Okay. MAYOR RICE: I'm getting to the point where I can say if we're buying two or three months here I can support it. MR. SHILLINGER: If I've got a general head nod to do that, then we don't need to bring it back up. If there's a difference of opinion I need to have some clear direction from the board. COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS: I guess I have two All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 38 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 questions. First, easements across public lands, does that include conservation lands? You have to allow power across conservation lands? that. COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: No. COMMISSIONER MURPHY: No. We've already settled COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS: So what lands can we purchase on No Name Key? MR. SHILLINGER: If we purchase it with the deed restrictions that come with it, if the owner that is selling it already granted an easement, we take it with that easement. Now, we have the power of eminent domain. We can always foreclose on that deed restriction and pay money, the value of the diminution of power to the, or a value to the downstream people. That's, you know, you want to go to the nuclear option we can buy the whole island, but I don't think anybody wants to go that route. COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS: Well, yeah. And I agree with Mayor Rice. I mean, I think that we have to support our own Comp Plan. We have to proceed with this injunction and we have to wait for the appeal decision. MR. SHILLINGER: Let the record reflect Mayor Rice just left the room. COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: He handed me the gavel and said you know how I feel. All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 39 M M 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. SHILLINGER: Do I have the general direction to go forward? COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: What exactly -- that's obvious to me. But what if our Comp Plan just says discourage, it's the LDR that -- MR. SHILLINGER: That says prohibit. COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: That says prohibit. MR. SHILLINGER: Right. COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: So we're not talking about our Comp Plan. COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS: Well, but -- COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: Saying okay is not -- COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: Discourage is not prohibit. Those are two different definitions in my opinion. MR. SHILLINGER: And you could have, you could have a provision in your LDRs that did something else to discourage short of prohibition. But right now the LDRs say prohibit. That's what you enforce, is your code. You know, the Comp Plan, the case law is unless the Comp, the Comp Plan has to have some language that's self-executing for it to be enforceable on its own without some LDRs. But we do have LDRs, so that's what we have to enforce. COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: So you only need a head nod? All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West I 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 40 MR. SHILLINGER: If there's the general consensus, I think I have the direction I need. COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS: And just for the record, the only reason that I brought up the undergrounding thing was trying to break through this. COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: I understand. MR. SHILLINGER: And I could float that as a trial balloon. COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: Not yet. COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS: Not yet. COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: So then how do you make your argument, Bob? MR. SHILLINGER: Hold on a second. Let her change the paper. (Mayor Rice re-entered the room.) MR. SHILLINGER: Okay. The record reflects you've changed your paper, the court reporter, and we've said nothing of substance while you were doing that. COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: Bob, I don't know how you bring that up in your negotiations. MR. SHILLINGER: Well, I won't. COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: When we're fighting our Comp Plan that says no electricity and you're making that argument but you said, well, if you put them underground. MR. SHILLINGER: You'd have to commit to going All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 41 LIM 1q_ 11 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 through a process to change your LDRs to make that happen. COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS: And I don't even know that Bob should do it. MR. SHILLINGER: No. And I've clearly been not given the authority to do it. Okay. Are we ready to close the closed session now? MAYOR RICE: I believe we are. Do you feel that you've got -- MR. SHILLINGER: Sufficient direction. Thank you. MAYOR RICE: Okay. We will close the closed session at this time, and the closed session is now terminated. We will now reconvene the public meeting. (Proceedings concluded at 10:26 a.m.) All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 42 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 C E R T I F I C A T E STATE OF FLORIDA ) COUNTY OF MONROE ) I, Susan L. McTaggart, Court Reporter and Notary Public, State of Florida at Large, do hereby certify that I was authorized to and did report by stenotype the proceedings in the above -entitled matter, and that the transcript is a true record of said proceedings. Dated this 3rd day of June, 2012. Susan L. McTaggart, Court Reporter All Keys Reporting — Court Reporters — (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West