HomeMy WebLinkAboutItem K1
* CLOSED SESSION 1:30 P.M. *
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
AGENDA ITEM SUMMARY
Meeting Date: 2/17/10 - KL
Bulk Item: Yes No ~
Division: County Attorney
Staff Contact Person: Bob Shillinger. #3470
AGENDA ITEM WORDING: An Attorney-Client Closed Session of the Board of County Commissioners in
the matter of Monroe County v. Key Largo Ocean Resorts Coop., Inc. CA P 96-260.
ITEM BACKGROUND: This case was filed in 1996 to foreclose a code enforcement lien against KLOR as a
result of unpermitted construction, Since the real property was owned by KLOR as a corporation, not by the
individual shareholders, any violation subjected the entire park to foreclosure. There are literally hundreds, if not
thousands, of code violations at KLOR, with violations existing on (virtually) every lot. In addition to
unpermitted construction, most lots violate various provisions of the standard fire and life safety codes. From
the beginning, KLOR sought to cure the violations first through a rezoning and later through redevelopment. In
2003, the County entered into a settlement agreement with KLOR which called for the redevelopment of the
property through a development agreement. In 2006, the development agreement was approved. The site plan
which implemented the development agreement was approved by the Planning Commission in 2007 but litigation
over that site plan lasted through 2009. The dispute over the site pl~ grew when the KLOR board decided to
implement the redevelopment and spawned a petition to recall the board of directors, On 12/21/2009, an
arbitrator for DPBR removed the KLOR board of directors and replaced it with a new board of directors who
have indicated a preliminary intention to recede from the redevelopment of the park pursuant to the development
agreement with the County, New elections are scheduled for February 2010.
On 12/10/09, Judge Garcia granted the County's motion for a temporary injunction and ordered KLOR closed as
of 1/15/1 0 due to numerous fire and life safety code violations there. As a result of the recent developments,
legal staff needs direction from the BOCC.
Legal staff desires direction from the Board. Per F. S, 286.011(8), the subject matter of the meeting shall be
confined to settlement negotiations or strategy sessions related to litigation expenditures.
Present at the meeting will be the Commissioners, County Administrator Roman Gastesi, County Attorney
Suzanne Hutton, Chief Assistant County Attorney Bob Shillinger, Assistant County Attorney Susan Grimsley,
and a certified Court Reporter.
PREVIOUS RELEVANT BOCC ACTION:
1/20110 BOCC approved Closed Session for 2/17/10 @ 1:30 p,m, in Key Largo
CONTRACTIAGREEMENTCHANGES: N/A
STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS: N/A
TOTAL COST: Est. $200 INDIRECT COST:
COST TO COUNTY: Est. $200
BUDGETED: Yes .-X- No
SOURCE OF FUNDS:
REVENUE PRODUCING: Yes
No X
AMOUNTPERMONTH_ Year
APPROVED BY: County Atty ---.-X.- OMBlPurchasing _ Risk Management_
DOCUMENTATION:
DISPOSITION:
Revised 2/05
Included
Not Required X
AGENDA ITEM #
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
County of Monroe Mayor Holly Merrill Raschein,District 5
Mayor Pro Tem James K.Scholl,District 3
The Florida Keys Craig Cates,District 1
., Jl Michelle Lincoln,District 2
Robert B.Shillinger,County Attorney** David Rice,District 4
Pedro J.Mercado,Sr.Assistant County Attorney**
Cynthia L.Hall,Sr.Assistant County Attorney**
Derek V.Howard,Sr.Assistant County Attorney** Office of the County Attorney
Christine Limbert-Barrows,Assistant County Attorney** I I11 12'Street,Suite 408
Peter H.Morris,Assistant County Attorney ** Key West,FL 33040
Patricia Fables,Assistant County Attorney (305)292-3470 Office
Joseph X.DiNovo,Assistant County Attorney** (305)292-3516 Fax
Kelly Dugan,Assistant County Attorney
Christina Cory,Assistant County Attorney
Nathalia Archer,Assistant County Attorney
**Board Certified in City,County&Local Govt.Law
January 17, 2024
Kevin Madok, CPA
Clerk of the Court, 16'Judicial Circuit
Monroe County Courthouse
500 Whitehead Street
Key West, FL 33040
In Re: Monroe County v. Key Largo Ocean Resorts, Case No.: 96-CA-260-P
Dear Mr.Madok:
Please find attached a scan of the transcript of the attorney-client closed session held before the Monroe County
Board of County Commissioners,on February 17,2010,in connection with the above-referenced litigation. The
litigation has concluded; under Fla.Stat. 286.011(8), the transcript may be made part of the public record once
litigation has ended.
Thank you for your assistance in this matter. Please contact me if you have any questions.
Sincerely,
Digitally signed by Cynthla L.Hall
" DN:cn=Cynthla L.Hall,o=Monroe
County BOCC,ou,email=hall-
cynthia@monroecounty-fl.gov,USDate:2024.01.16 15:51:56-05'00'
�,yllLllra L. Ila"
Senior Assistant Monroe County Attorney
Attachment: Scan of Closed Session Transcript dated 02-17-2010
1
1 MEETING OF THE
2
MONROE COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
3 ATTORNEY-CLIENT CLOSED EXECUTIVE SESSION
4 RE : MONROE COUNTY VS . KEY LARGO OCEAN RESORTS CO-OP . , INC .
5 CA P 96-260
6 MURRAY E . NELSON GOVERNMENT CENTER
7 102050 OVERSEAS HIGHWAY
8 KEY LARGO, FLORIDA 33037
9 WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 17 , 2010
t"ti o���,"
10 �������� I
2 : 48 P.M. - 3 : 15 P .M.
11
12 Commissioners Present :
13 COMMISSIONER HEATHER CARRUTHERS
0111 14 MAYOR PRO TEM SYLVIA J. MURPHY
15 MAYOR GEORGE NUGENT
16 COMMISSIONER MARIO DIGENNARO
17 COMMISSIONER KIM WINGINGTON
18 COUNTY ATTORNEY SUZANNE HUTTON, ESQ.
19 ASSISTANT COUNTY SUSAN GRIMSLEY, ESQ.
20 CHIEF ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEY BOB SHILLINGER, ESQ.
21 COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR ROMAN GASTESI
22
23 ALL KEYS REPORTING
24 Olde Towne Centre 600 Whitehead Street
9701 Overseas Highway Suite 206, 2nd Floor
25 Marathon, Florida Key West, Florida
305-289-1201 305-294-2601
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1 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: Close the session.
2 MS . HUTTON: For the record, this meeting is being
3 held upon the request of the county attorney, who
4 announced at a prior public meeting held on January 20th,
5 2010, that I needed advice concerning the matter of
6 Monroe County versus Key Largo Ocean Resort Cooperative .
7 CA P 96-260 . At that meeting the board approved holding
8 today' s closed session and public notice was given at the
9 January 20th, 2010 BOCC meeting and through publication
10 of the agenda for the February 17th, 2010 BOCC regular
11 meeting.
12 For the record, and the benefit of the court
13 reporter, each of us will state our name and positions,
14 starting with the commission, as that would be
15 Commissioner Carruthers .
16 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Heathers Carruthers,
17 district three .
18 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: Sylvia Murphy, district five.
19 MAYOR NUGENT: George Nugent, county commissioner,
20 district two .
21 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: Kim Wigington,
22 commissioner, district one .
23 MS . HUTTON: Suzanne Hutton, county attorney.
24 MR. GASTESI : Roman Gastesi, county administrator.
25 MR. SHILLINGER: Bob Shillinger, chief assistant
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1 county attorney.
011111
2 MS . GRIMSLEY: Susan Grimsley, county attorney.
3 MS . HUTTON: This is a reminder we will only be
4 discussing settlement negotiations and strategy relating
5 to litigation expenditures . You cannot take any decisive
6 action at this meeting. There is an item on the open
7 session in the case -- in the event that any action is
8 desired to be taken. And that will happen at the open
9 meeting. And I 'm going to turn this discussion over to
10 Mr. Shillinger .
11 MR. SHILLINGER: And my first words are to apologize
12 for giving you something at the last minute, but I got
13 this yesterday. There was no way to get it to you sooner
14 than yesterday. I would like you to look, if you can.
15 The sale --
16 MAYOR NUGENT : Mario. Mario.
17 MS . HUTTON: Just for the record, Commissioner
18 DiGennaro, district four, is in the room too.
19 MAYOR NUGENT : You just got this yesterday?
20 MR. SHILLINGER: Yes . So I couldn' t, you know,
21 couldn' t get it to you any sooner . And if that causes
22 you heartburn, we can put off the discussion for another
23 month. But I wanted to at least get it to you, kind of
24 give you some of the parameters . What you' re looking at
25 is a settlement proposal, compliance schedule, proposed
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1 by KLOR, the new board of KLOR. If you turn to tab one,
2 to the executive summary, that explains everything else
3 in there . So if you want to take a minute and look at
4 that, that might be well worth your time .
5 MAYOR NUGENT : The executive summary?
6 MR. SHILLINGER: Executive summary, yeah. It starts
7 off February 17th, 2010 .
8 MAYOR NUGENT : Well, while we ' re reading this, why
9 don ' t you tell us what you think.
10 MR. SHILLINGER: I can pretty fast, tell you.
11 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Probably --
12 MR. SHILLINGER: My initial impression -- I 'm not
13 happy with it, but it ' s -- what they' re proposing doing
0
14 is taking it, having a compliance schedule for taking out
15 the illegal additions that represent the gravest fire,
16 safety concern that ' s left in the park. We 've already
17 had a propane tanks removed. We 've moved the boats and
18 the vehicles out of the -- the living area so that the
19 fuel sources that were the gravest concern, have been
20 removed. This is the last of the fire safety issues, is
21 the illegal additions that people have built . So they' re
22 within inches, and in some instances, connecting to the
23 adjacent trailers . And this is their plan to remedy
24 this . This is going to be done in phases, basically,
OEM
25 street, by street, by street, with the exception of the
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1 people that the court has allowed to remain in there .
2 Those people will be done last . The court has allowed
3 people, that have represented to be permanent residents,
4 to remain in there . So, question?
5 MAYOR NUGENT : Bob, yeah. Essentially, the first
6 thing I see is they' re requesting one year before they
7 even start demolition?
8 MR. SHILLINGER: No. It ' s one year they will
9 complete demolition.
10 MAYOR NUGENT : Okay. One year to complete
11 demolition.
12 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : All seven phases?
13 MR. SHILLINGER: Yes .
14 MAYOR NUGENT : Here is what I think we didn ' t do in
15 the first settlement agreement is, what ' s to say another
16 board --
17 MR. SHILLINGER: Gets voted in?
18 MAYOR NUGENT : -- elected and voted and they say, we
19 don' t like this one either .
20 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Just kidding.
21 MAYOR NUGENT : So let ' s reshuffle the deck.
22 Whatever we do, I think, at least for me, those days are
23 over with. This has been going on for 12 years . We 've
24 got substantial money tied up in getting us where we are
25 today, which is right back to square one, in my opinion.
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1 And I -- I think that whatever we do, that within the
too
2 agreements, that something triggers some kind of
3 incentive that you are going to be paying out the ear for
4 any future delays .
5 MR. SHILLINGER: Okay.
6 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: So George, if I read you
7 correctly, you' re saying we should just go forward and do
8 what you said, sign the agreement and so forth?
9 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : I think --
10 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Excuse me . I 'm asking you.
11 I 'm asking you, is that what you' re saying?
12 MAYOR NUGENT : Well, we had a settlement
13 agreement that was --
14 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Yeah. I 'm not -- I just
15 want to be sure .
16 MAYOR NUGENT : Are you talking about this settlement
17 agreement?
18 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Yeah.
19 MAYOR NUGENT : Or the one that we dealt with --
20 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Yeah. I agree with you,
21 this is one to another, to another. I definitely agree
22 with that . I really want to make sure I understood you
23 correctly. I wasn' t sure if I understood you, that we
24 are not interested in negotiating a new settlement
25 agreement . We are interested in getting the old one, get
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1 it done, and the court make a decision to finish what we
2 started?
3 MAYOR NUGENT : Well, I guess my question would be, I
4 don' t know exactly where we can go right now.
5 MR. SHILLINGER: Right .
6 MAYOR NUGENT : What the judge is going to say, at
7 the next hearing, that it ' s going to take place . But for
8 me, I 'm saying we 've dealt with this long enough. And
9 that whatever Bob works towards, in the arrangement with
10 the judge, that -- that -- that we can' t go back to
11 square one .
12 MR. SHILLINGER: We can ' t start over again.
011E 13 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : So this can still be
14 amended?
15 MR. SHILLINGER: Sure . This is their proposal .
16 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Okay. So that -- so that
17 it says that it ' s binding, regardless of who is in charge
18 of the KLOR, even if the board of directors changes --
19 MR. SHILLINGER: Right .
20 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : -- A and B of -- assess a
21 penalty --
22 MR. SHILLINGER: For doing -- failure to do that?
23 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : If not done by, a year
24 from the date of settlement is signed.
25 MAYOR NUGENT : What happens if we take the position
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1 that we reject this out of hand, without even knowing
2 what ' s in it . We reject it out of hand. We want the
3 original settlement agreement dealt with, as its own
4 addendum.
5 MR. SHILLINGER: All right . Our next hearing will
6 be next week in front of Judge Garcia. It will be
7 largely up to him whether or not he ' s going to force the
8 closure of the park due to fire safety issues or not . If
9 he doesn' t, we have the right to take an appeal to the
10 Third District Court of Appeal .
11 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: If he doesn' t?
12 MR. SHILLINGER: If he doesn' t close the park.
0-2 13 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: Does not?
14 MR. SHILLINGER: Does not close the park, we have
15 the right to take an appeal to the Third District Court
16 of Appeal to actually order him to reverse his order and
17 actually enter an injunction closing the park. This is
18 their plan for addressing the fire safety issues, which
19 would lead to the closure of the park.
20 MAYOR NUGENT : And you told me your thoughts are, we
21 have an entitlement to that?
22 MR. SHILLINGER: The case law is pretty clear that
23 we are entitled to an injunction. Now, whether that also
24 means we ' re entitled to closure of the park, that I 'm
25 not -- we ' re not in as strong a position. We got an
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1 injunction and this could be incorporated into an
2 injunction. We may not have gotten the relief we were
3 seeking from the closure, but we got an injunction which
4 removes several of the fire safety issues and has one
5 major one left to deal with. We have no really good
6 options here . We could continue to litigate with these
7 people, or we can try to work cooperatively to find a
8 solution. This is their plan to get us to have no
9 violations within a year. That ' s progress . That ' s the
10 most progress we 've had. Now, is that --
11 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Anyone else?
12 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: Hold on. Hold on. Ms .
13 Wigington is next .
14 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: Please correct me where
15 I 'm wrong . The old plan from the old board was
16 unacceptable from the property owners and I don' t want to
17 call them property owners .
18 MAYOR NUGENT : Unit dwellers .
19 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: And they were successful
20 and it ' s not easy, in my opinion, to remove a board of
21 condominium. The state has to find some pretty atrocious
22 actions on the part of the board, usually. May or may
23 not have happened in this case, but they found cause
24 enough to remove the old board and allow an election.
� 25 So, what we 've got, eventually, they appointed --
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1 MR. SHILLINGER: They appointed -- they substituted
2 the board. Now, just -- there was an election, earlier
3 this month. Two of the five seats were up for election.
4 And the people that were -- the new board -- the new
5 board members that were placed there in December that
6 ran for re-election were re-elected. So the new board is
7 still intact with five members .
8 MAYOR NUGENT : And were they not planning on
9 challenging that?
10 MR. SHILLINGER: I understand through the grapevine
11 that there ' s going to be a challenge to the new board
12 from some of the old board members .
13 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: But doesn' t it take like,
d
14 70 percent or 90 percent of the people there that have an
15 interest, owners to -- to get a board removed?
16 MR. SHILLINGER: No .
17 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: How much does it take?
18 MR. SHILLINGER: I don' t know the exact --
19 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: So this is a co-op, not --
20 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: Co-op.
21 MAYOR NUGENT : Co-op. They don' t have to have 50
22 percent, just a simple majority.
23 MR. SHILLINGER: That was my understanding, but I
24 don ' t want to sit here and tell you that for a fact .
25 MAYOR NUGENT : No . And you' re very well versed --
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1 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: Okay. I 'm not sure . I
re
2 don ' t know anything about the co-op, but I know that if
3 you -- the state has removed someone and replaced it with
4 someone, and they come up with a plan that we think is
5 workable at all, and may end up in a worse position after
6 we drag it out in court for a year or two, maybe we ' re
7 willing to just bite the bullet and say, this is it . You
8 either do this --
9 MAYOR NUGENT : But the state didn' t do what you say.
10 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: The state did remove the
11 board members .
12 MR. SHILLINGER: The state -- the state removed the
13 old board. They just didn' t uphold an election. They
14 replaced them.
15 MAYOR NUGENT : But then they had an election.
16 MR. SHILLINGER: And those people that were
17 replaced -- two of the people that were replaced got
18 re-elected.
19 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON : Because you can' t leave
20 something with the board of directors, those people were
21 re-elected. A majority of those people were re-elected
22 as it stands -- that would maybe -- they would stand --
23 MR. SHILLINGER: Now, four of -- two of the five
24 were re-elected. The others were not .
/// 25 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: Two of the five .
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1 MR, SHILLINGER: The other three, their terms don' t
2 come up until next year.
3 MAYOR NUGENT : There is history --
4 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: I know -- I know --
5 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: Hold on.
6 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: And the history is not the
7 point I 'm trying to make . The point I 'm trying to
8 make -- if we can get there is, we can hold them to this
9 settlement agreement, of saying just like Commissioner
10 Carruthers said, it doesn' t matter who' s on the board,
11 this is it . This is what you' re going to do. We want
12 you to do this . Show good faith. And the first time you
ON 13 don' t show good faith is when you spend another hundred
14 thousand dollars .
15 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: Commission DiGennaro.
16 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: My question, is this
17 particular settlement agreement that you have here, will
18 this be endorsed by the court, that there be no other
19 appeal to this group, being the final version or whatever
20 you find and negotiate with them?
21 MR. SHILLINGER: Right . This -- that would be the
22 intention, would be to submit whatever is negotiated to
23 the court and -- and have that entered as an order . And
24 have -- and I 'm taking the direction to include some
0P, 25 penalties for failure to abide by that . Now, I can tell
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1 you that if we don' t agree, and they go into court, they
2 may be able to et Judge Garcia to enter this as art of
Y g g P
3 the order, and come up with their schedule . So we may --
4 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: And what is the -- what is
5 the worst scenario the judge would do, in your opinion?
6 MR. SHILLINGER: The worst scenario that the judge
7 could do, or would do?
8 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: What do you think is the
9 worst scenario?
10 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : From our perspective or
11 their ' s?
12 MR. SHILLINGER: From the county' s perspective?
13 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Of course .
g
14 MR. SHILLINGER: Is to allow them to continue to
15 live there and not -- and come up with a slower schedule
16 for compliance . That would be the worst I think he would
17 do.
18 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: I 'm not -- could you give
19 me a few seconds with him? What is your opinion that the
20 judge will not do that? Do you have a better feeling
21 about this whole case, you have been involved in this
22 thing?
23 MR. SHILLINGER: All right . Here ' s what -- here ' s
24 what I would like to do.
25 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Okay. That ' s what I
g --
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1 what did you find?
2 MR. SHILLINGER: I just got this yesterday. I would
3 like to at least get some direction, to get it through
4 building, and the fire marshal, and everybody else, is
5 what I was planning to do. I haven' t had a chance to do
6 all of that. I kind of want you to hold off on making a
7 decision.
8 MAYOR NUGENT : Bob, can I just say something? Let
9 me just say this to the commissioners, as someone whose
10 been here, seen it done, and I would even ask Miss
11 Grimsley to chime in here . Is that our growth management
12 department, going back to Tim McGarry, worked in good
13 faith in coming up with the original settlement
jai ;
14 agreement . And now we find ourselves, because of the
15 controversy amongst the folks that were there, and for
16 him being able to, through the legal process, gain
17 control over the old board, whatever that means . I 'm not
18 trying to --
19 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: That ' s permissible .
20 MAYOR NUGENT : What?
21 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: And that ' s permissible,
22 but it ' s called democracy.
23 MAYOR NUGENT : It is permissible . But for me, it ' s
24 a -- they still hold a good faith operation, 12 years
25 after, on our part, at great expense . And for me, I 'm
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1 going to point to where there should be some onerous
2 impacts imposed by us, to regain all the money that we
3 spent trying to shepherd these yahoos through this
4 process .
5 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : So you' re talking about
6 penalties regardless of whether they comply with this?
7 MAYOR NUGENT : I would like to do that . I was -- I
8 would predict that we 've got well over six figures, in
9 the high numbers .
10 MR. SHILLINGER: If you put all the staff hours into
11 it, absolutely.
12 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: Are we going to be able to
13 get that?
14 MR. SHILLINGER: Well, and that ' s the problem. If
15 we -- they've already -- it ' s already out on the street
16 that they' re contemplating bankruptcy, from their
17 creditors .
18 MAYOR NUGENT : Okay. That ain' t all bad.
19 MR. SHILLINGER: It isn' t . But in terms of being
20 able to collect fines from them, we won ' t be able to.
21 MAYOR NUGENT : Well, that puts us where we ' re at .
22 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Put a lien on the property.
23 MR. SHILLINGER: We still have the ability, as --
24 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: Wouldn' t we get the
25 property?
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1 MR. SHILLINGER: We wouldn' t get the property in
2 bankruptcy. We would still have the ability to use
3 our -- seek and exercise our police powers to shut it
4 down. But we -- you know, the thought of being able to
5 recoup money is not very -- it ' s not very likely that we
6 would be able to, especially if they go into bankruptcy.
7 The other things that you just -- background issues you
8 need to be aware of . They' re not looking to recede from
9 the settlement agreement or even the development
10 agreement . This is just a new compliance schedule to
11 implement the development. So I want to make sure
12 that -- that we ' re clear on that . They' re not looking to
13 back away from the settlement agreement or the
14 development .
15 MAYOR NUGENT : Okay. Because we didn' t tie up all
16 the loose ends, in my opinion, in the very front row, we
17 find ourselves back at square one . And that ' s why I go
18 back to whatever we do, there should be imposed, if we
19 can legally do it, we fines -- fines that will be in
20 place, that will incentivize them to quickly arrive at
21 getting this behind us .
22 MR. SHILLINGER: All right. The other point that I
23 wanted to at least make you aware of in the background,
24 this problem may be completely solved for us by DEP. It
25 has nothing to do with our issues . But the Department of
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1 Environmental Protection, their operating in violation of
011"EillIC:
2 their permit; hasn' t been updated. Their sewer plan is
3 out of compliance . They' re trying to make a decision
4 now. KLOR is trying to make a decision now on whether to
5 upgrade their system, upgrade their plants so they can
6 keep their DEP permit up, or hookup to Key Largo Waste
7 Water Treatment District, when it becomes available, and
8 not spend their money retrofitting everything in a fever.
9 In some respects they have larger problems than us . So
10 this problem may get solved on its own by DEP and --
11 THE COURT REPORTER: One at a time .
12 MR. SHILLINGER: Please, one at a time for the court
05!! 13 reporter . Go ahead, sir.
14 MAYOR NUGENT : The only thing -- the action DEP
15 would take would be to shut down the plant, which would
16 in effect, shut down the park.
17 MR. SHILLINGER: Right .
18 MAYOR NUGENT : But we still have to resolve it .
19 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: What ' s the problem?
20 MAYOR NUGENT : Well, it --
21 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: Hold on .
22 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Basically, you know, what
23 I 'm hearing this out today, but you' re requesting from us
24 is review this document, go to staff and find out if it ' s
25 valid. Come back and we can have a discussion after you
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cvgw� 1 make -- you may want to throw this away. We ' re just
2 sitting here talking back and forth.
3 MR. SHILLINGER: Right .
4 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : What you' re requesting
5 today is to review this document . Go to staff. Check
6 out everything; fire department, document that . And then
7 come back and brief us, what you truly think. And we can
8 let them know what we think.
9 MR. SHILLINGER: The other thing that I would like
10 to do is part of that, is to spend some money doing some
11 discovery.
12 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: I can ' t hear you.
13 MR. SHILLINGER: I want to spend some money doing
14 some discovery, verifying the list of people that are
15 currently allowed to live there .
16 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Thank you. What kind of
17 money are you talking about?
18 MR. SHILLINGER: Probably, I would guess, no more
19 than 10 grand.
20 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: It costs $10, 000 to verify
21 if they' re living there?
22 MR. SHILLINGER: Well, if I 'm going to do
23 depositions of each and every one, figuring about 40 of
24 them, $200 a deposition.
25 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: Oh, man. Does it matter
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1 who lives there?
<�t
2 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: Yes .
3 MR. SHILLINGER: It matters . Now, we may be able to
4 do it cheaper first by doing some interrogatories and
5 request for admissions and doing some paper discovery.
6 So it may be a two phase process, but --
7 MAYOR NUGENT : Why don' t we just sue DEP to close
8 the park --
9 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : I was asking, if I may,
10 what their violations are with the DEP?
11 MR. SHILLINGER: Their -- my understanding is that
12 their permit has expired. They have leaks in their
13 system. They may not be able to get their permit up and
14 reinstated without fixing their collection system.
15 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: They will unless that
16 legislation goes through, then they' ll have a
17 violation --
18 MAYOR NUGENT : No. You' ll have --
19 MR. SHILLINGER: One at a time for the court
20 reporter, please .
21 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: Sorry.
22 MAYOR NUGENT : Earn your money.
23 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : I thought you said there
24 was a hearing next week about this?
25 MR. SHILLINGER: There is a hearing next week.
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6111111
1 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Don' t -- don' t you need
2 the direction before next week, or are you able to do
3 that?
4 MR. SHILLINGER: I mean, I can go to the court and
5 say, we just got this proposal . We need time to vet it
6 and ask for more time . The court may want to position --
7 or it may go ahead and impose this . I 'm going to bring
8 the issue up that there are people living there that
9 have, at least on paper, homesteaded properties in Dade
10 County. And verify that -- that the people that the
11 court has allowed to live there, that represented to the
12 court have no other place to go, actually, have no other
13 place to go . And aren' t committing a third degree felony
14 by committing Homestead fraud. But that ' s a long, long
15 process .
16 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Okay. What -- okay. Two
17 questions, the first is, what can we do so that we ' re not
18 spending another 10 grand? Can we impose penalties on
19 them for our verification of -- of this --
20 MR. SHILLINGER: I don' t see a way without
21 negotiating those type of penalties .
22 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Okay. And second question
23 is, is there a downside to you negotiating and saying --
24 trying their dumb dumb board, saying that needs to be
25 done?
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1 MR. SHILLINGER: No. There is no downside to that .
j
2 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : So then going ahead and
3 walking down that path to accept this, there is no
4 downside that you see?
5 MR. SHILLINGER: I don't see one, at this point .
6 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: And I don' t mean this
7 insulting. I don' t have the emotion about this issue
8 that someone would if they dealt with it for 10, 15, or
9 20 years . I see this as a good thing, and moving forward
10 to get it done, regardless of who lives there . And I may
11 be overlooking something very important, of what
12 difference does it make who lives there, if they' re going
,,, 13 to do it in days and get it done in a year, what
14 difference does it make who lives there .
15 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: This -- this -- excuse me,
16 Bob. If this were the case, I would say, yes, in a
17 heartbeat . But this is the latest in a long string of
18 manipulation that we have put up with. Maybe because I 'm
19 a resident up here, George, because he ' s been sitting on
20 the commission. It has been one sad story after another,
21 all these years . And we have given, and given, and
22 given.
23 MAYOR NUGENT : Well, it does indicate your emotions
24 that we 've spent hundreds of thousands of --
25 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: It does .
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1 MAYOR NUGENT : -- of tax payer dollars dealing with
2 these guys, and even now it ' s being proposed we spend an
3 additional $10, 000 to find out who lives there .
4 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: Well, that ' s what I 'm
5 questioning whether we should spend $10, 000 to determine
6 who lives there . Why not just make them move forward
7 with this proposal and in a year they will be through?
8 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Well, we can do it
9 because --
10 MAYOR NUGENT : I don' t think for one second that in
11 a year they will be through.
12 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: You don't think -- you
13 don ' t think this is in good faith, and you don' t think
14 there ' s a snowball ' s chance in hell of getting this done?
15 MR. SHILLINGER: I remain -- I 'm skeptical .
16 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Bucks --
17 MR. SHILLINGER: I remain to be convinced that they
18 will meet their compliance schedule .
19 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Okay. So, let ' s --
20 MR. SHILLINGER: It has been represented to me, that
21 what they are trying to do, is to start the demolition
22 process . And once the mind-set sets in that KLOR will
23 not exist the way it ' s existed over time, that the
24 holdouts will cave in and go forward. I would be
25 delighted if that ' s what actually happened. I don' t --
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1 MAYOR NUGENT : What I --
2 MR. SHILLINGER: I don' t expect that to happen.
3 MAYOR NUGENT : I have watched, Bob, is that -- and
4 Commissioner Wigington is right, that they have the right
5 to do it, I guess . But one group in a power struggle has
6 rested authority from the other group that has been
7 dealing with this for 12 years .
8 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: Wouldn' t that be a good
9 thing?
10 MAYOR NUGENT : Huh?
11 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: Wouldn't that be a good
12 thing?
13 MAYOR NUGENT : If you thought for one second that it
14 was going to go away within this time frame, and I don' t .
15 I -- I -- because it ' s -- having watched this, because
16 here ' s a piece of property, valuable piece of property,
17 that they' re arguing with over how they' re going to
18 redevelop. And one group has rested the authority from
19 the other group.
20 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: And you' re happy with the
21 first group that was so manipulative for 20 years, or 10
22 years, or 15 years?
23 MAYOR NUGENT : I -- I think up to a point that they
24 were dealing in good faith, as -- Miss Grimsley has left .
a 25 MR. SHILLINGER: She ' s back. Just chasing out
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1 somebody.
2 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: Chasing out one of the
3 elderly.
4 MAYOR NUGENT : She may have something to add to the
5 good faith effort that has been made by growth management
6 staff to -- to do this settlement agreement .
7 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: But I thought that was the
8 only group?
9 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: Okay. Commissioner
10 Carruthers .
11 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : So let me ask this
12 question. The reason we need to find out whether the
13 people who are listed as being full-time residents are
14 legitimate is because they have significant code
15 violations and if they' re -- if they' re not really
16 full-time residents, they should be demolished -- their
17 property should be demolished, as well?
18 MR. SHILLINGER: It ' s a timing issue . Okay. The
19 last phase of people to be -- I 'm looking for the
20 appropriate map.
21 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : But they' re --
22 MR. SHILLINGER: The green map . The one with green.
23 It ' s phase eight .
24 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : They' re allowed to stay.
25 MR. SHILLINGER: They' re allowed to stay.
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1 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Right .
2 MR. SHILLINGER: Those would be --
3 MAYOR NUGENT : What is this? What is --
4 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Page eight . The green --
5 MR. SHILLINGER: The green.
6 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : The green blocks .
7 MR. SHILLINGER: It ' s behind tab --
8 MAYOR NUGENT : Is there eight?
9 MR. SHILLINGER: There ' s no --
10 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: Three . It ' s the last --
11 yeah. Last page .
12 MAYOR NUGENT : The last half.
13 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: I thought -- I found it very
14 interesting that this comes up less than a week before he
15 needs to go in for a hearing.
16 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Look under -- it ' s the
17 last page, in tab two .
18 MR. GASTESI : How long can they stay there?
19 MR. SHILLINGER: They can -- under this plan, they
20 would be able to stay there for a year, and they would be
21 the last ones to be prepared. They would have
22 construction going on all round them.
23 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : This doesn' t say
24 demolition anywhere here for the full-time residents . It
25 just says they' re full-time residents .
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1 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: But if you look at the
2 other graphs, it shows their homes and their --
3 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : No . If you look it shows
4 their homes are not excluded.
5 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: Are excluded.
6 MR. SHILLINGER: Okay. Everybody else is in pink
7 and it says demolition.
8 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Right .
9 MR. SHILLINGER: And in the last column it says --
10 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Full-time residents in
11 green.
12 MR. SHILLINGER: And, obviously, we would nail that
13 issue down with any kind of settlement agreement .
14 This -- this can' t, in its current form, can' t be the
15 settlement agreement.
16 MAYOR NUGENT : Do you have comments to make on this?
17 MS . GRIMSLEY: No .
18 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : But isn' t this saying that
19 these people stay, even after. So they stay in a field
20 of debris?
21 MR. SHILLINGER: That ' s what ' s been represented to
22 me . Is that they' re going to want to stay there . Those
23 are the people that have been ordered -- allowed by the
24 court to stay there . And that their ' s -- their ' s would
25 be repaired last . Now, I have problems with that from a
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1 safety situation.
frFF/
2 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Yeah.
3 MAYOR NUGENT : Close down.
4 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: What do you mean, repaired?
5 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Come into code compliance .
6 MR. SHILLINGER: Is what I mean.
7 MAYOR NUGENT : Who ' s paying for this? You' re saying
8 that they' re going into bankruptcy and now we ' re looking
9 at somebody that ' s supposed to pay for this?
10 MR. SHILLINGER: Each homeowner --
11 MAYOR NUGENT: I say reject it .
12 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Is paying for the
13 demolition?
14 MR. SHILLINGER: Is paying for their demolition on
15 their structure .
16 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: Except these?
17 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Except for the ones --
18 probably, half of them?
19 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: Probably, several of them
20 really do have a place to go. And some, quite frankly, I
21 know, only come on weekends and they' re not supposed to .
22 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: So if we accept this, you
23 go into court, next week --
24 MR. SHILLINGER: And say we have a compliance
25 schedule that we need to reduce to writing, if we haven' t
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1 done it by them. And put that in front of the court to
2 enter into a court order.
3 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: And they' re -- and
4 agreeable to everything that we 've -- that we 've agreed
5 to, and all of a sudden we find out they' re not going to
6 comply with this?
7 MR. SHILLINGER: Then we have some enforcement
8 mechanisms in the settlement agreement .
9 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: What if we get eight months
10 down the road --
11 MAYOR NUGENT : My vote ' s to direct him to see what
12 the judge is going to --
13 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: All that --
14 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: I 'm in --
15 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: You mind if I say something?
16 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Well, I can only ask. You
17 say you' re going to say something. Am I supposed to be a
18 mind reader?
19 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: Yes .
20 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Well, I 'm not .
21 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: Well, practice .
22 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Okay. Because your ' s is
23 bigger . You asked for that one .
24 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: That was good. Quick and
25 good. Okay. Bob, did Judge Garcia agree with the
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1 original development agreement?
2 MR. SHILLINGER: Yes .
3 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: The original plan?
4 MR. SHILLINGER: Yes .
5 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: Is that still in effect right
6 now?
7 MR. SHILLINGER: Yes .
8 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: Then, Bob --
9 MR. SHILLINGER: What he had given them time to do,
10 what they are supposed to have done between the last
11 hearing and the hearing next week, is to come back with
12 him and give him, first of all, an indication, thumbs up
13 or thumbs down, on a continuance to this -- continually
14 want to abide by the development agreement and move
15 forward. And their representations to me are, yes, we
16 do. This our new compliance schedule .
17 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: Oh. Oh. Bob. No. With
18 you, I --
19 MAYOR NUGENT : Don' t trust them?
20 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: I don' t either . Three
21 months, right back here looking at her, all talking at
22 one time because they had a --
23 MAYOR NUGENT : This is the beginning of their
24 delaying tactics by bringing it here the day before a
25 commission meeting.
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1 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Madam Mayor .
2 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: Yes .
3 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Yes . Okay. Thank you.
4 This is lawyering. There is exactly what ' s happening.
5 It ' s lawyering. Put it back in the judge ' s hands . Let
6 the courts make a decision. We have been doing this for
7 years . I agree with George . And I agree with the Mayor.
8 And I think, like I said, we get this today. No . Put it
9 back in the judge ' s hands . Let the judge make the
10 decision. Let him sign --
11 MR. SHILLINGER: Take no position on this, is what
12 you -- is the direction I 'm getting?
13 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: Well, it ' s by --
14 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : I disagree . I propose
15 that we take the position that -- that -- that as we
16 said, it has to be binding, no matter who is in charge .
17 Significant penalties if it ' s not met . And so we go
18 before the judge and say, you know, we understand we ' re
19 going to work. I mean, this is going to be in a year. I
20 don' t see --
21 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: I don' t see where you have
22 to, what ' s --
23 MAYOR NUGENT : You know -- you know, this is just my
24 opinion, but this is the first part of the delaying.
25 They could have gotten this to us before, gotten it to
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Cc, 1 Bob so we could have read it . We haven' t read it . So
2 they just, essentially, gained another month before it
3 comes back to the county.
4 MR. SHILLINGER: There really isn' t a lot to read.
5 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Yeah. I mean --
6 MAYOR NUGENT : My position is to -- well, if you
7 believe this, it ' s very simple to read.
8 MR. SHILLINGER: Uh-huh.
9 MAYOR NUGENT : No doubt about that . I don' t believe
10 it for a second.
11 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: Been there . Done that . So
12 you want your -- would you like us not to take a vote,
13 but to -- I think you 've pretty much got the general idea
iai%
14 of the commission, do you not?
15 MR. SHILLINGER: I think I can tell .
16 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: Okay. Let ' s vote on that .
17 MAYOR NUGENT : If not, Roman can help us .
18 MS . HUTTON: Okay. If the Mayor wants to close the
19 closed session, in Monroe County versus Key Largo Ocean
20 Resorts Co-op, then we will move to the next closed
21 session.
22 MAYOR MURPHY PRO TEM: And she does wish to close,
23 on that note .
24 (The attorney-client closed session was concluded at 3 : 17
25 p .m. )
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1 CERTIFICATE
2 STATE OF FLORIDA,
3 COUNTY OF MONROE
4 I, Patricia A. Zischka, certify that I was authorized to
5 and did stenographically report the foregoing proceedings and
6 the transcript is a true record.
7 Dated this 7th day of March, 2010 .
8
9 '
10 Patricia A. Zischka
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