Item H3* 2:10 P.M. TIME CERTAIN *
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
AGENDA ITEM SUMMARY
Meeting Date: 6/15/11 - MAR Division: County Attomey
Bulk Item: Yes No XX
Staff Contact Person: Bob Shillinger, 292 -3470
AGENDA ITEM WORDING:
An Attorney-Client Closed Session of the Board of County Commissioners in the matter of Florida Key
Deer v. Craig Fugate, et al., Case No. 90- 10037 -CIV.
ITEM BACKGROUND:
Per F.S. 286.011(8), the subject matter of the meeting shall be confined to settlement negotiations or
strategy sessions related to litigation expenditures.
Present at the meeting will be the Commissioners, County Administrator Roman Gastesi, County
Attorney Suzanne Hutton, Chief Assistant County Attorney Bob Shillinger, Assistant County Attorney
Susan Grimsley, Assistant County Attorney Derek Howard, special litigation counsel Patrick Raher,
Adam Siegel, and Douglas Wheeler and a certified court reporter.
PREVIOUS RELEVANT BOCC ACTION:
5/18/11 BOCC approved Closed Session for 6/15/11 @ 2:10 p.m. in Marathon
CONTRACT /AGREEMENT CHANGES:
N/A
STAFF REC0ABMNDATIONS:
N/A
TOTAL COST: Court Reporter costs INDIRECT COST: BUDGETED: Yes No
DIFFERENTIAL OF LOCAL PREFERENCE:
COST TO COUNTY: Court Reporter costs SOURCE OF FUNDS:
REVENUE PRODUCING: Yes No xx AMOUNT PER MONTH Year
APPROVED BY: County Atty X OMB/Purchasing Risk Management
DOCUMENTATION: Included Not Required X
DISPOSITION: AGENDA ITEM #
Revised 2/05
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
County of Monroe Mayor Holly Merrill Raschein,District 5
Mayor Pro Tem James K.Scholl,District 3
The Florida Keys Craig Cates,District 1
., Jl Michelle Lincoln,District 2
Robert B.Shillinger,County Attorney** David Rice,District 4
Pedro J.Mercado,Sr.Assistant County Attorney**
Cynthia L.Hall,Sr.Assistant County Attorney**
Derek V.Howard,Sr.Assistant County Attorney** Office of the County Attorney
Christine Limbert-Barrows,Assistant County Attorney** I I11 12'Street,Suite 408
Peter H.Morris,Assistant County Attorney ** Key West,FL 33040
Patricia Fables,Assistant County Attorney (305)292-3470 Office
Joseph X.DiNovo,Assistant County Attorney** (305)292-3516 Fax
Kelly Dugan,Assistant County Attorney
Christina Cory,Assistant County Attorney
Nathalia Archer,Assistant County Attorney
**Board Certified in City,County&Local Govt.Law
January 17, 2024
Kevin Madok, CPA
Clerk of the Court, 16'Judicial Circuit
Monroe County Courthouse
500 Whitehead Street
Key West, FL 33040
In Re: Florida Key Deer, et al. v. Fugate, et al., Case No.: 90-cv-10037,U.S.District Court,
Southern District of Florida
Dear Mr.Madok:
Please find attached scans of five transcripts of the attorney-client closed sessions held before the Monroe County
Board of County Commissioners on:
March 16, 2011;
April 20, 2011;
June 15,2011;
October 19, 2011; and,
December 14, 2011,
in connection with the above-referenced litigation. The litigation has concluded;under Fla.Stat.286.011(8),the
transcripts may be made part of the public record once litigation has ended.
Thank you for your assistance in this matter. Please contact me if you have any questions.
Sincerely
Digitally signed by Cynthia L.Ball
DN:cn-Cynthia L Nall,o-Monroe
County UOCC,ou,email-hall-
@� cynthiaC monroecounty-tl.gov,
_us
Date:2024.01.1615:56:06 05'00'
Cynthia L.Hall
Senior Assistant Monroe County Attorney
Attachments: Scans of Closed Session Transcripts dated 03/16/2011; 04/20/2011; 06/15/2011; 10/19/2011, and
12/14/2011
F��y .
MEETING OF THE C 0
........
MONROE COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
ATTORNEY—CLIENT CLOSED SESSION
RE : FLORIDA KEY CHEER v. CRAIG FUGATE, ET AL.
CASE O. : 90-10037—CIV
HELD AT THE
COMMISSION CHAMBERS
2793 OVERSEAS HIGHWAY
MARATHON, FLORIDA 33050
2 : 10 — 2 : 43 P .M.
COMMISSIONERS PRESENT
. , . y, COMMISSIONER KIM WIGINGTO
COMMISSIONER DAVIO RICE
MAYOR HEATHER C RRUTHERS
COMMISSIONER OEOROE NU ENT
COMMISSIONER SYLV'IA J. M[7RPHY
STAFF PRESENT
COUNTY ATTORNEY SUZANNE HUTTON
COUNTY ATTORNEY SUSAN ORIMSLEY
ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEY OEREK HOW RD
CHIEFS ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEY BOB SHILLINOER
COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR ROMAN GASTESI
ALSO PRESENT :
r
w- ' COUGLAS WHEELER, ESQ.
All Keys Reporting k Court Reporters—(305)2 9-12 1
Locations In Key Largo,Marathon& Key gust
2
MAYOR CARRUTHERS : Now I would like to hereby open
2 the closed session.
3 MS . HUTTON : For the record, this meeting is being
4 held upon the request of the county attorney who
5 announced at a prior BOCC meeting held May lBth, 2011
6 that I needed advice in the matter of Florida Key Deer
7 versus Craig Fugate, et al . Case Number, 90-10037 CIV.
8 At that meeting the Board approved holding today' s closed
9 session, and public notice was given through public
10 announcement at the meeting of May 18th, 2011 and through
11 publication of the June 15th, 2011, BOCC meeting agenda
12 and on the County' s Web site .
13 For the record, and the benefit of the court
14 reporter, each of us present will state our name and
15 position starting with the commission.
16 THE WITNESS : Kim Wigington, district one, county
17 commissioner .
18 COMMISSIONER RICE: David Rice, district four,
19 county commissioner .
20 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : Heather Carruthers, district
21 three, county commissioner .
22 COMMISSIONER NUGENT : George Nugent, district two,
23 county commissioner.
24 COMMISSIONER MURPHY: Sylvia Murphy, district five,
25 county commissioner.
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West
1 MS . UTT Suzanne Hutton, county attorney,
2 ASS , GAST'ESIm Roman Gaateai, county administrator.
3 MS . RI SL ym Susan Grimsley, assistant county
attorney.
5 MR. HOWARD: Derek Howard, assistant county
attorney,
7 MR. HEELER: Douglas Wheeler, counsel for the
9 county®
4 H LLIN E Shi ling r, chief assistant
10 county attorney.
11 MS . HUT'T Just as a reminder, was will be
12 discussing settlement negotiations and strategy relating
13 to litigation expenditures . you can not take any
14 decisive action at this meeting . We can only have an
5 exchange of information and direction® Any decisions the
16 board makeswill be donein a meeting open to be public.
17 I will turn this over to
18 MR. S I IN are here on the FEMA Key deer
19 case ® Technically, it -- we ' re m- the matter that ' s
20 pending in litigation is our appeal of the denial of our
21 motion to intervene . Which we appealed - - Judge oor
22 denied our motion to intervene when he approved the
3 settlement agreement , We took an appeal to the Eleventh
24 Circuit Court Of Appeals, and then the Federal government
25 sensing that theydidn ' t want to spend a year or two at
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters ( 5289-1201
Locations in Key Largo, Marathon& Key West
4
I the Eleventh Circuit, only to be told to go back and let
2 the County be heard, filed what ' s known as a motion for
n:vI indicative ruling® Basically, telling ®® asking the
4 trial court, tell us how you would have ruled on the
5 County' s motion to intervene, which you previously denied
16 as moot, when you approved the settlement agreement .
7 He didn' t actually give us any reasons for denying
8 the other than to say, I 've reached a settlement
19 agreement. The case is settled. Your motion to
intervene is moot .
So that was filed in late March, early April . It ' s
12 been sitting on Judge Moore ' s desk for the better part of
.13 two months now, with no indication of when the indicative
lrl ruling is going to come down.
1-5 In the meantime, staff, and you' ll hear more about
3.116 this later in an agenda item this afternoon, has been, at
....7 least meeting with Fish & Wildlife and FEMA officials to
18 get a better understanding of what it is they' re trying
2.19 to get us to do, as well as engaging a little free
20 discovery along the way, to try and see how they got to
2`1 where they said they wanted to get.
22 But the Board had previously given us the direction
2"3 to retain outside counsel and to examine all options
24 including prepare the matter to file our own suit, to go
25 to challenge the implementation of the R. P.A. s in the
.........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................- I
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West
1 settlement agreement.
2 So, we 've been working on kind of a multi-approached
3 front ® Discussions with FEMA and Fish & Wildlife, and
working with Hogan Lovells . Doug Wheeler is here to talk
about their firm and what they've done, and what they
6 expect they can do, in terms of litigation, as well as
we ' ve explored some legislative fuses, some changes in
ki the National Flood Insurance Act, that may or may not get
us out of having to comply with everything, as well as
:i..10 dealing with our outstanding takings liability, to some
11 degree ®
12 But, you know, in a closed session we ' re limited to
13 the contest of the, you know, strategy in dealing with
114 the current pending litigation, which is the appeal of
15 our denial of the motion to intervene . And whether we
16 can actually ®® another way to deal with that would be to
17 challenge it through a collateral action.
18 So, Doug is here. He ' s -® can come up and kind of
119 explain what the fir ' s position is and what the outlook
210 is . But, really, we scheduled this, following up on our
21 meeting from ®® with Fish & Wildlife and FEMA .folks i
22 D. C. to take your temperature on where you wanted to
22 head, to answer any questions that you might have . it
24 strikes me that you may have wanted to have part of this
2E) conversation with Christine here We carp ' [ do that in a
All Keys Reporting•-Court Reporters--(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo, Marathon& Key West
I closed session. We can always adjourn this closed
2 session. Have the discussion item with Christine, in an
3 open session, and then come back to closed session, if
4 you feel like that ' s appropriate .
5 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: Today?
6 MR. SHILLINGER: Today, we can do that if we want,
7 you know, because we ' re still in a pending -- you know,
a it was noticed for today. So, you want to hear from Doug
9 first and then make a decision so how -- if you want
10 to --
11 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : Yeah. Sure.
12 MR. SHILLINGER: -- take a hiatus on this .
13 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : Because, I mean, I had questions
14 about the letter®
15 CAR® SHILLINGER: Right .
16 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : As far as --
17 MR. SHILLINGER: Let me introduce Doug Wheeler,,
18 He ' s a partner in the firm of Hogan Lovells ® This is the
19 firm that we went out -- and than, actually, Commissioner
20 Carruthers was the one who brought him to our attention
21 when we were looking at five or six firms . This is the
22 one that stood head and shi,::)ulders above everybody else,
23 in this area of practice ® And we 've been very pleased
24 with their work product to date . So let me turn it over
25 to Doug Wheeler .
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo, Marathon&Key West
7
I R® WHEELER: Thank you, Bob.
2 Commissioners, Mayor, privilege to be here . In
3 fact, I ' ve spent 40 years involved with natural resources
4 law and management . I have been a state official in
5 California and with the Federal government . Practicing
now at this it as an environmental partner .
7 In Washington I ' ve been involved with issues
iB surrounding the Endangered Species Act, since the act was
,9 adopted in 1973 . In fact, I helped write parts of it
110 while I was at the attorney -- as an attorney, at the
11 Department of Interior, a much younger attorney, I would
1-2 say. And I need to say that, number one, we were very
L3 pleased to have been asked to help the County, in this
1, 1 matter because, number two, we feel very strongly about
15 the case .
16 And just to say, with the broadest overview, you
17 have a situation here in which the Fish & Wildlife
1B Service has asked, beyond its authority, FEMA, to do
19 something which is beyond it ' s authority. Essentially,
20 to shift the responsibility for compliance with the
21. Endangered Species Act, from those two federal agencies
22 to the County of Monroe .
23 COMMISSIONER NU GENT: Without talking to them.
24 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : Yeah.
25 MR, WHEELER: And the complications are enormous,, as
.....................
................................................................... ...................................................................................................................
All Keys Reporting--Court Reporters--(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo, Marathon&Key West
8
1 your staff has demonstrated in attempting to comply with
2 the so-called reasonable and prudent alternative .
3 They' re neither reasonable nor prudent. They will be
4 very costly to the County. And it ' s our view, as you
5 pursue three options, and they' re not mutually exclusive ®
6 You can attempt to work with these Federal agencies
7 to modify the requirements they seek to impose, such that
8 Christine ' s job is made a little bit easier .
9 You can pursue the course that we have now embarked
10 upon, which is to appeal the judgment against
11 intervention, a big mistake, and argue, that is to say,
12 no question about the law that you are entitled to
13 participate in this conversation ® The fact that you' re
14 not there, however, means you' re not obliged to adhere to
15 any part of it.
16 And then third, as Bob has just said, you can mount
17 a collateral action to challenge the settlement and to
18 challenge the law pursuant to which that settlement was
19 made . Both because you were not party to that
20 conversation, but also because the law pretty clearly
21 supports your position®
22 Which, as we understand it, is that the federal
23 agencies should resolve this matter between themselves
24 without resorting to your effort and the burden it would
25 put on you and the citizens of Monroe County.
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West
91
1 So that ' s ®® that' s -- that ' s it in a nutshell . I
2 think Christine has prepared a letter that she wants you
3 to send to FEMA and the Fish & Wildlife Service, as a
4 result of meetings we had there when you were in
5 Washington. I think they understand the strength of our
6 concerns and our complaint . I think that ' s why the
7 Justice Department has supported the motion, this
8 indicative ruling.
9 But it is ®® it ' s pretty clear to me that we ' re not
10 going to make very much progress by simply talking to the
11 agencies . And, in fact, the time is nearly up in which
12 some of the statutory or the temporal requirements of the
13 settlement must be met . We ' re running against the clock.
14 And they have not performed even as their own
15 agreement requires them to perform.
16 COMMISSIONER NUGENT : What ' s the catch? This is way
17 too good.
1,8 MR. SHILLINGER: Well, the catch is, indirectly,
19 they can end our flood insurance . And then we would have
20 to challenge that withdrawal of our eligibility.
21 COMMISSIONER NUGENT : What ' s the catch? It ' s still
22 sounding good.
23 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: Yes .
24 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : Yeah. I mean, can you really
25 imagine them doing that?
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo, Marathon&Key West
10
3.. MR. HEELER: To be perfectly honest, we 've got very
2 competent young litigators chomping at the knit to take
3 this case to court . It will take some time . It. will
take some funding .
5 COMMISSIONER G Can we recover?
® WHEELER: And the
? MR. SHI LING e No. You can not do that .
R® And the outcome is not guaranteed.
9 That is one problem with the current course e will
10 probably be allowed to intervene ® I think there ' s no
1..:1.. question that the County should have been at the table .
1.2 But that doesn ' t guarantee that the judge will then
13 agree, once you ' re in --
14 COMMISSIONER UGENT : Right .
11' R® HEELER: -A to set aside the settlement
16 agreement . So you ' re still not where you need to be,
1"17 with regard to implementation of a settlement .
18 COMMISSIONER tV G NT : Any guessti ation of costs?
1.9 MR. L I would be happy to provide an
20 estimate, but we ' re talking about hundreds of thousands
21 not tens of thousands .
22 MAYOR CARR THERS : Yeah® Probably, close to Galleon
23 Bay. Maybe we should ask for that oney back.
24 MS . GASTESI ® Well, I ' ve got a couple questions ,
25 MAYOR CARRUT E S ® Well, yes . I have, I guess, a
A11 Keys Reporting--Court Reporters--(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West
II
I couple questions and observations I 'm not sure if all of
2 them should be made here, some with Christine first
What you said was, if I recall correctly, at the second
4 course of this, of our actions, is that they are ®- that
5 we, because we were not at the table, we are not obliged
to abide by the conditions of the settlement.
7 MR. WHEELER: That is our opinion
R COMMISSIONER I IN TON a I thought that all along .
MAYOR RRUTH RS : No. I
10 MR. SHILLI13 SRm Yea, but ®®
11 MAYOR RRUTH RS & Yes . But, there is the but.
12 MR. HILLIN R® They can go through the process of
13 saying we ' ve established these conditions and we ' re going
14 to start the process of suspension, and we weld have: t
15 challenge
16 MAYOR RRUTH RS ® Okay. So let ' s just play it out
17 Let ' s say that they suspend us from National. Flood
16 Insurance ® Well, that puts every mortgage in the county
19 at risk. Then that becomes, to me, it starts to become
20 that ' s a takings claim because you' re telling me, I can' t
1 get flood insurance that I can afford for this house that
22 I bought
23 COMMISSIONER NUGE T: You can' t get subsidizes flood
24 insurance ® You can get flood insurance .
25 MAYOR CARRUTH RS : Not that I can afford®
r
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo,Marathon& Key West
12
COMMISSIONER ICI C C a Thatdoesn ' t ea
2 COMMISSIONER UGENT: That doesn ' t come into play.
R. SHILLING It ' s not actually a takings claim.
MAYOR CA e Okay. But what it would do --
just stay with me. If I say, if I can' t afford, is that
it could potentially cause mass migration of, you know,
7 half ®® do you really think that the Federal government
8 wants that battle to plays out?
COMMISSIONER ICI CTC : I ' t think they care .
10 COMMISSIONER R Y: I don ' t think they care . But
11 can I ask one question? If they did, in fact, begin to
12 withdraw, all the flood they were going to withdraw
13 the flood insurance and we challenge that, does it freeze
14 that action until --
15 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : The suit is filed --
COMMISSIONER URRHY® ®® that is answered, our
challenge?
:1..' R® HEELER® I think You would want a stay,
39 correct, of their action® Just as if we succeed in
21 gaining intervention in the current litigation.
21. COMMISSIONER RRHY® Uh-huh .
22 MR. WHEELER: You would want to stay the requirement
23 that we complied with those R. .A. s, pending resolution
24 of legal issues . I think the more likely outcome, and I
25 defer you to Bob about FE A' s possible response . The big
All Keys Reporting,, Court Reporters (305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West
13
1 argument here is a dispute between the Fish & Wildlife
2 Service and FEMA.
3 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : Right .
4 MR. WHEELER: It has nothing to do with the County,
5 as a legal matter . And if they were to withdraw, it
6 would be because they were attempting to discharge their
7 obligations to the Fish & Wildlife Service. That ' s a
8 different matter. I think you, the County, would have a
9 strong case to make .
10 Look, we ' re not responsible for their failure to
11 meet those requirements . And that is ®® and, therefore,
12 we can not be punished through withdrawal of flood
............. 13 insurance .
14 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : So you don' t think --
15 MR. WHEELER: Which we are otherwise qualified.
16 COMMISSIONER NUG ENT : What if ®® what if we -® this
17 is one of the winning the battle and losing the war
18 situation potentials . Christine has said what it ' s going
19 to cost to implement this program. So we ' re fixing to
20 spend in legal fees, what it would cost to implement this
21 program?
22 MR. WHEELER: Not that much, I wouldn' t say.
23 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : No. Well, because the cost is ad
24 infinitum --
25 COMMISSIONER NUGENT: What if we spend hundreds of
All Keys Reporting—Court Reporters—(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo, Marathon&Key West
14
1 thousands of dollars of doing this and as the attorney
2 has said., then they turn around and say, okay. You came
3 in and sit at the table . And came up with the same
4 result
5 COMMISSIONER WI It3OTO m No. you won' t come up with
the same result.
7 MR. WHEELER: Now, let me be clear.
4 COMMISSIONER NU ENT ® Yeah, Okay.
Ma WHEELER® That is the possible result of a
10 current posture. We asked to intervene . We are sort of
11 playing a catch up game here, trying to get to the table
12 where we should have been all along . The outcome there
13 might be, okay, the judge will affirm the settlement
14 agreement
15 COMMISSIONER NU GENT : Flight
16 MR. WHEELED® That ' s not the hundreds of thousands
17 option® The more aggressive and expensive option is to
13 file, as Bob describes it, a collateral suit, challenging
19 the entire agreement and taking the initiative, on the
20 law, as we understand it, challenge the fact that FEM
21 has done what they would do. In effect, to invalidate
22 the --
23 COMMISSIONER WI IN TON: Right.
4 MR. WHEELER: -- outcome of that litigation, the Key
25 deer litigation.
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)2 9-1201
Locations in they Largo,Marathon&Key West
1 COMMISSIONER NUGENT: Okay, And I follow then.
2 But, initially, the cheaper part of it gets us at the
3 table ® So let me see .
4 R. SHILLINGER: You get to sit at the table -®
COMMISSIONER NUGENT: Two to one loses every time .
6 R. SHILLINGER: Well, and it gets us at the table
7 after the main course has been eaten, and there is, you
8 now --
9 COMMISSIONER NUGENT: This is between --
10 MR. SHILLINGER: Who' s picking up the check?
11 COMMISSIONER NU GENT: You know, it ' s like two wolves
12 and a sheep decide what ' s for dinner.
13 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : And it ' s --
14 MR. WHEELER: There " s one other --
15 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : And it ' s still not addressing,
16 sort of the rightness or the wrongness of the decision in
17 the first place ®
18 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: Right . If we roll over on
19 this, we might as well roll over ®®
COMMISSIONER NU GENT : I 'm not saying -- we ' re
21 unfolding scenarios here . And I think we ought to be --
22 because if you think for one second that we can ' t wind up
23 right where we are, right now, after we wind up at the
24 table, I think you' re naive .
25 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : Getting at the --
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201
Locations in They Largo, Marathon&Key West
16
1 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON : Possibly, but fighting this
2 on its merit, I mean, it just seems to me just so bizarre
3 that when, you know, when a ®® when all of this is
4 brought to light and a judge rules, that ' s not tired of
5 the issue, makes a decision, we will not be in the same
6 position that we ' re in now.
7 MR. SHILLINGRR® We may wind up in front of the same
8 judge, even if we file it in D.C. because they might
9 bounce it back.
10 COMMISSIONER UGENT: You mean --
11 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : Okay.
12 R® SHILLINGER: It ' s a possibility.
........... 13 COMMISSIONER NUGENT: I was understanding, better
14 than anyone, or as well as anyone, the Endangered Species
15 Act . And in this lawsuit, in the settlement agreement
16 that hasn ' t been arrived at, at this point in time,
17 without us being at the table, the Endangered Species Act
18 is going to be enforced, unless something changes . And
19 then it becomes who ' s going to do the administrative and
20 the enforcement part .
21 MR® WHEELER: That ' s right ® But the obligation of
22 FEMA is established by federal law, as FEMA' s ob"Ligation.
23 They must demonstrate to the U. S . Fish & Wildlife Service
24 that in the administration of their programs, they are
................... 25 sensitive to the impact of those programs upon endangered
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo,Marathon& Key West
17
1 species
COMMISSIONER NUGENT: Right .
3 MR. WHEELER: They' ve chosen to demonstrate their
4 sensitivity by shifting that burden to Monroe County.
And by requiring that you review every building permit
within the so-called areas of special focus for its
7 impact on endangered species
COMMISSIONER NUGENT : Well, my understanding of what
has happened here, is that an environmental group sued
10 because FE A was providing flood insurance that was
11 negatively impacting the endangered species .
12 MR. WHEELER: Essentially, FE A was .saying, we don' t
13 have an obligation in the course of our regular business
14 to adhere to the Endangered Species Fact
15 COMMISSIONER NUGENT: The solution --
16 MR. WHEELER: And they were wrong. Frankly, they
17 were wrong about that, Every Federal agency, in the
18 conduct of its business, has a clear obligation under the
19 E ® . ® s .
20 COMMISSIONER NUGENT : Absolutely.
1 MR. WHEELER: Since 1973
22 COMMISSIONER NUGENT: Absolutely.
23 MR. WHEELER: To conduct that business in a way
24 which respects endangered species and their habitat ®
25 COMMISSIONER NUGENT : Su, the simple ee and we 've
All Keys Reporting-Court reporters-(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo, Marathon& Key West
1 talked about this . Simple solution to that would have
2 been -- at least the first step, would have been to say,
3 we ' re not going to provide subsidized flood insurance or
4 development, especially on Big Pine, where most of the
5 endangered species ®® and North Key Largo, where the
6 flora and fauna exist.
7 MR. WHEELER: Where, in our judgment, FEMA' s
a judgment, it would be injurious to endangered species to
9 do so.
10 COMMISSIONER NUG ENT : Right .
11 MR. WHEELER: And that would have been one way to
12 discharge their responsibility. And when we ' ve asked
13 them, and we have asked this question recently, why
14 didn' t you do that? Why don' t you --
15 COMMISSIONER NUGENT: Right .
16 MR. WHEELER: ®® simply exercise your own authority
17 in a way that meets the requirements of the Endangered
18 Species Act ® They said we don ' t have the authority to do
19 that ® We can not consider the effects of our program in
20 the issuance of insurance .
21 COMMISSIONER NUGENT: But yet they threatened us
22 because of downstairs enclosures, to pull our National
23 Flood Insurance Program.
24 MR. WHEELER: And so the third solution, at which we
25 just touched upon, is to simply give them -® they told us
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West
19
1 at a meeting in Washington when we were there two months
2 ago, they told us, we don ' t have the authority to deny
3 insurance for this reason ® We have a statutory list of
4 criteria for the issue of insurance and whether it
5 affects endangered species is not one of those. It is
6 certainly possible to give them that authority without
7 doubt.
8 Incidentally, I happen to disagree with that
9 conclusion, but their lawyers told us that .
10 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : Is that authority, according to
11 the code ®® the code of Federal regulations, or in FEMA' s
12 regulations?
13 MR. WHEELER: It would be in FEMA' s authorizing
14 statute.
15 MR. SHILLINGER: Right .
16 COMMISSIONER NUGENT: So how can they threaten us on
17 these downstairs enclosures with pulling our National
18 Flood Insurance?
19 MS . GASTESI : Well, and that ' s my question . Have
20 they threatened us, and have mentioned that, or are we
21 just interpreting it that way? Have they -- I mean, they
22 didn' t come and say, this is what you' re going to do. We
23 cut this deal .
24 MR. SHILLING ER: Yes .
25 MS . GASTESI : Yeah. We weren ' t at the table, now
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Cargo® Marathon&Key West
z
1 you have to do this, or we ' re going to pull it; they've
2 actually said that?
3 MR. SHILLINGER; That ' s in the written documents .
4 MR. WHEELER: Well, not the threat to withdraw flood
insurance
R. Sf- ILLIN ER® The threat of probation and
7 suspension is in there .
MR. WHEELER: In the R. . . s .
MR. SHILaLaINGER: Yes .
10 MR. WHEELER: If you fail to adhere to the procedure
11 that they' ve identified, in the R. P. . s, you are
12 required to notify there that a particular applicant is in
13 violation of these requirements and that the insurance
14 should be withdrawn. But that would be your
15 responsibility.
16 MS . ASTESI ® But that doesn' t mean that we have to
17 run the program for them?
18 COMMISSIONER NU ENT : If those are --
19 COMMISSIONER MURPHY: It does one step :further
20 though. There ' s one step beyond that, where we lose all
21 the flood insurance . Am I correct?
22 MR. SHILLILI ER; des . And they have made that
23 statement that, you know, if you don ' t play by these
24 rules that is the potential outcome . So make stare you
25 understand the consequences .
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo, Marathon& Key West
21
COMMISSIONER URPHY4 They get to decide whether we
2 play by the rules or not.
COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON But this is never ending.
4 Once you give into that
COMMISSIONER URPHY I know.
6 COMMISSIONER WI NGTON , ®® they can go on and on
7 And now if you don' t do this, you lose your flood
S insurance .
ISSIONER URPHY® Against the law.
10 COMMISSIONERWI INGTON: So I can ' t say what I 'm
11 thinking.
12 COMMISSIONER URPHY d You ' re preaching to the chair .
13 COMMISSIONER WI INGTON c No. Absolutely not . I had
14 to watch my wards awhile ago, until I couldn ' t even talk®
15 I am just furious . I can barely contain myself.
16 COMMISSIONER MtJRPHY a That' s why I say, you ' re
17 preaching to your choir .
18 MS . AST SI : Where do the politics play into this?
19 Are we still at the state level? Would it be in are issue
20 because of the .state -- current state politics, pro
21... development, blah, blah, blah, anti-environmental, is
22 it ®- are we finding that same movement at the national,
23 c,r no?
24 MAYORCA RUTHERS d I don ' t think there has to be --
25 that ' s not our --
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)2 -1201
Locations in Key Largos Marathon&Key West
22
1 LDS ® STESI ® Well, just timely-wise . I 'm just
2 thinking timely-wise.
MAYOR RRUT H RS a Okay. But I think our
position --
MR. SHILLIN Rt We ' re in a closed session. We 've
got to kind of keep this on trek as to the confines
7 of
S MAYOR ARRUTH RS c Right
MR. SHILLIt3GRRm -- litigation.
10 CAS . AS SSI ® I 'm talking about strategies
11 MAYOR CARRU RS ® Yes .
12 MR. SHILLI Ra I know, it ' s just --
13 MS ® HUTeTONc It ' s strategy regarding our
14 expenditures .
15 MAYOR CARRUTHE S ® But our argument is not that w
16 don' t want to support it
17 COMMISSIONER t3SPHY® I can ' t hear two people at one
16 time
19 MAYOR ARRUTH RS m Our strategy is not that we don ' t
20 support the Endangered Species Act, we do. Our strategy
1 is that the entity that created it and is enforcing this
22 has to enforce it, not put it clown can us .
23 COMMISSIONER RICE: Not us .
4 MAYOR ARRUTH RS : 'That ' s the only -- to me it ' s
25 more of a it ' s an unfunded mandate, it ' s a state ' s
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)2 9-12 1
Locations in Ivey Largo,o, ar thou&Key West
23
1 right argument .
2 MR. WHEELER: Let me just respond on that point .
3 Interestingly, to delve more deeply, perhaps, than you
4 want to into the details . That they have written these
5 recently prudent alternatives, around the requirements
6 for nine species . Only four of which are jeopardized,
7 according to the actions of FEMA and the County.
a And of those four, only one, this is one of nine
9 now, requires a habitat solution. So all that they have
10 written, five species, not even required by law to be
11 protected® Four, only one of which --
12 COMMISSIONER NUG ENT : Is that the Key deer?
.......... 13 MR. WHEELER: -- would benefit from the habitat .
14 It ' s the Key deer.
15 COMMISSIONER NUGENT: Key deer .
16 MR. WHEELER: So -- so --
17 COMMISSIONER NU ENT: Predominately, found on Big
18 Pine Key.
19 MR, WHEELER: That they have established a category
20 of critical habitat called special focus hearings .
21 MAY CARRUTHERS : So they ' ve gone --
22 MR. WHEELER: Which exists nowhere else in the law®
23 That there is a requirement, under the law, that if you
24 list an endangered species, you designate critical
25 habitat, but that ' s a very controversial action by the
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters--(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo, Marathon&Key West
24
1 Fish & Wildlife Service . They found a way to avoid doing
2 that, through this agreement, that there will be special
3 focus areas in Monroe County.
4 The only place in the country, incidentally, where
5 special focus areas are now governing FEMA decisions
6 about the issuance of insurance .
7 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : Commissioner Murphy.
8 COMMISSIONER MURPHY: Roman, would you finish the
9 sentence, please.
10 MS . GASTESI : What I was asking is, if this was the
11 state, and we went to Governor Scott right now, and said,
12 look what DEP is doing to us ® He would say, whoa ® I 'm
13 with you. I don' t think that is the same atmosphere in
14 Washington.
15 COMMISSIONER NUGENT : No.
16 MS . GASTESI : And I think Obama would say, you know,
17 tough luck, buddy. I mean, you' re on your own. You
18 know, that ' s what I was asking. He ' s up in Washington,
19 and is it shifting? Are we going to get, you know, a
20 bunch of republicans, Rick Scott types, taking over
21 Washington, then it would be a timing issue . That, look
22 guys, downstairs enclosures have been taking it on the
23 chin for the last 20 years . And here we are, and this
24 happened to us again. And that ' s why I 'm saying, big
25 picture strategy-wise .
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo, Marathon&Key West
25
................ 1 COMMISSIONER NUGENTt Then the picture for me,
2 Roman, it appears that we ' re opposed to the Endangered
3 Species Act .
4 S ® GASTESI : And that ' s not what I 'm saying. I 'm
5 saying, what the mayor is saying, it ' s enough already.
6 You know, you do your job . We ' re not going to do your
7 job for you. We 've been doing it, downstairs enclosures,
8 you ' ve been -- excuse my language, screwing us for 20
9 years, and now you ' re doing it again with the biological
10 opinion. And enough.
11 And I think Governor Scott would do it at the state
12 level, but I don' t think that ' s the same atmosphere .
13 COMMISSIONER UGENT: What -- I understand. And
14 then what happens if we say, screw you, we ' re not doing
15 this?
16 MS . GASTESI : I don' t know. That ' s what I 'm asking .
17 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : You know what, I bet you we would
18 get support at the Supreme Court --
19 MS . GASTESI : I 've --
20 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : -- in this today.
21 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: I don' t want a seat at the
22 table where we can end up right back In the same
23 situation.
24 COMMISSIONER NUGENT : Right.
........... 25 1 want to say, excuse me,
COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON:
All Keys Reporting—Court Reporters—(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West
26
1 screw you, we ' re not doing it .
2 COMMISSIONER MURPHY: Well, didn ' t they already say
3 we couldn ' t ®®
COMMISSIONER NUGENT : Well, we ' re just costing him
5 his retirement program.
6 MEN ® WHEELER: I 'm about to retire.
7 MS . GASTESI : No, you' re not.
8 MR, WHEELER: Let me just say about the County' s
9 record on conservation and --
10 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON : Yeah.
11 MR. WHEELER: It ' s extraordinary. The Fish &
12 Wildlife Service, in the first meeting that I attended on
13 your behalf, in Vero Beach, made that a point . You said
14 we ' re doing discovery. They' re going to have to
15 acknowledge that there is no county in Florida that ' s
16 doing a better job at protecting endangered species than
17 Monroe County. And this entire superstructure has been
18 erected between these two federal agencies to satisfy a
19 Federal requirement, to address the needs of a single
20 species . And there' s no evidence that it will do very
21 much more than what you are already doing ®
22 COMMISSIONER NUGENT : Right . And this goes back to
23 sort of what Kim was saying, that what gets us tc, the
24 table . By us saying no, we ' re not going to do it, then
25 we put tfte ball back in FEMA -- FEMA' s court because then
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo,Marathon& Key West
27
1. they' re going to have to say, we ' re going to pull your
2 flood insurance ® And then we start our lawsuit .
3 R® SHILLINGER: Versus, taking the offensive,
4 filing a collateral suit now in D.C. saying, stop the
5 implementation of the settlement agreement and the
16 R. P .A. s . We 've got these concerns over adoption, and
judge, we don ' t want to have our mortgages threatened and
our flood, by the withdrawal of our flood insurance,
issue an injunction to stay any action against us .
110 COMMISSIONER NUGENT : I would think that it would be
11. like putting the black at on these guys because then
they've got to take action, that we can respond to.
13 MR. WHEELER: We ®® we -- you ' re right to say that
it would give us the initiative in the matter . Right now
15 we are arriving late at the table . And we are attempting
116 to make good on a very bad situation.
1`7 There is one other matter we should probably touch
.18 on and that is the possibility if FEMA says to us, look,
9 we ' ve had to do all of this ® We ' ve had to shift the
210 burden to you all because we don' t have the authority to
21 take the endangered species into account .
22 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON : Not my problem.
23 MR. WHEELER: We -- we do it, help them to amend the
24 federal law, in order to give him that authority®
25 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON : No.
...............................................................
All Keys Reporting—Court Reporters—(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West
28:
1 MR. WHEELER: Then, they then would be responsible
2 for their own compliance .
3 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : Exactly.
4 COMMISSIONER NU GENT: The Endangered Species Act
5 doesn ' t?
6 ® WHEELER: That was what Key deer litigation was
7 all about. I believe that that law requires them to
8 administer their programs in ways that comply with the
9 act® The environmentalists thought so too, which is why
10 they sued.
11 COMMISSIONER NU GENT : Right .
12 MR. WHEELER: And -- and the court said yes, you do
13 have to comply.
14 COMMISSIONER NU GENT : And we weren' t -- they didn ' t
15 sue us .
16 MR. WHEELER: No. No. They sued FEMA because FEMA
17 was not complying with the Endangered Species Act .
18 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : So -- so -- and, essentially,
19 FEMA is saying, as their settlement, okay. Monroe County
20 you comply --
21 MR. WHEELER: Yes . We can' t do it . We can' t do it.
22 MS . HUTTON : So somebody else had do it.
23 MR. WHEELER: We would like you to do it for us .
24 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: But that ' s not our problem.
25 1 mean, how does that become our problem?
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West
29
1 MS ., HUTTON!, But, I guess, we need to get back to,
2 how do we ®® how do we approach it because we ' ve got an
3 option of continuing on to try to sit at the table that ' s
4 already been set, and they' re now clearing the table .
5 COMMISSIONER MURPHYt Go on the offense .
6 COMMISSIONER NU ENT : Why don' t we send --
7 MS . HUTTON : Or go on the offense --
a COMMISSIONER NUG ENT: Why don ' t we send him with the
9 message that we ' re not doing it . And -- and also,
10 convey ®® and convey that we don ' t want to get into a
11 legal battle with you guys . Resolve it, but we ' re not
12 going to use our resources, our tax dollars to pay for
13 it .
yr 14 S . GASTESI : Can we use the downstairs enclosure as
15 an example, here we go again. I mean, does that make any
16 sense, legally --
17 COMMISSIONER MURPHY : Why not?
13 MS . GASTESI : -- to ®® just don' t do this to us
19 again, or we 've been dealing with this matter for two or
20 three decades . And, you know, or so it ' s kind of a
21 freshener --
22 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : Well, you know, and it ' s
23 interesting because, essentially, we now have the state
24 that ' s intervened in our ability to regulate downstairs
25 enclosure too.
All Keys Reporting- Court Reporters - (305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo® Marathon&Key West
............. ..................
30
I MS . GAST ESI : Right.
,2 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : So --
3 MS . GASTESI : But how does the downstairs enclosure
4 issue relate to us? Doug and Bob, can you it .in at
5 all?
16 MR, SHILLINGER: Hard pressed to find
'7 COMMISSIONER MURPHY: Even if you just
8 R® SHILLINGER: ®® the language .
9 R® WHEELER: They told us they don' t want to talk
10 about the same subject in this setting.
11 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : Maybe put it this way, is the
1.2 pilot program that we have been laboring under since 13 2002, does that set some precedent for the being able to
14 offload their responsibility to us?
15 MR. SHILLINGER: Well, no because that ' s --
16 that ' s --
1.7 MS . HUTTON: That was --
18 MR. WHEELER: Voluntary program.
1 ® SHILLINGER: ®® was something we requested to
210 give us an inspection authority to deal with the number
of unpermitted --
22 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : So, essentially, it almost works
23 in the opposite . Look, we 've tried so and to work with
24 you.
25 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: Exactly,
....................................................
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo,Marathon& Key West
31
I MAYOR CARRUTHERS -, And now you' re screwing us again.
2 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON ; It proves how --
3 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : Right .
4 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: -- responsible we 've been
5 all along .
6 MR. WHEELER: Could I ®® I don' t know your
7 procedural lineup here . But could I make a suggestion,
8 with regard to the letter that ' s before you? And that is
9 to say, as Bob has just suggested, here are all of our
10 concerns about the regime that you want to impose upon
11 us ® We find them so overwhelming that we ' re unwilling to
12 proceed. And until such time as we can sit at the table
13 to structure a settlement in which responsibilities are
14 adequately apportioned, we will not proceed further. We
15 are currently in a somewhat ambivalent position.
16 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : Right .
17 MR. WHEELER: We ' re attempting to make --
18 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : Exactly.
19 MR. WHEELER: ®® the best of a bad bargain .
20 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : The notes that I made on my --
21 MR. WHEELER: There you go, so.
22 COMMISSIONER NU ENT: I like that .
23 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON : Do that®
24 MR. WHEELER: We ' ll do the next step.
25 MR, SHILLINGER: And, procedurally, we could bring
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo, Marathon& Key West
32
1 you the letter back next Monday, there ' s a special
2 meeting .
3 MS . HUT TON: Uh-huh .
4 MR. SHILLINGER: We can agenda an its to bring that
back, a revised letter, with that approach .
6 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : Okay.
7 MR. SHILLINGER: Well, we need to talk about it in
8 the open session ®® 1
9 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : That ' s fine .
10 MR. SHILLINGER: -® with Christine, but, you know,
1.1. just thinking forward. That might be the way --
12 COMMISSIONER NUGENT: They might start checking
13 their whole cards, when that happens .
14 COMMISSIONER MURPHY: And what about --
15 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON : Yes . And we ' ve already
.1.6 started
I,7 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : Backing down a little bit?
18 COMMISSIONER WICI NGTON: Yes . Yes .
19 COMMISSIONER MURPHY: What about the suggestion you
20 made, which takes us in the direction of the offensive?
2.1. MR. SHILL INGER: Yes .
22 COMMISSIONER MURPHY: Instead of play
- ing catch up?
23 MR. SHILLINGER: Filing suit in Washington D.0. ............
24 COMMISSIONER MURPHY: Yes .
25 MR. SHILI,INGER: with the collateral issue?
.....................................................
................................................................................................
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West
33
1 COMMISSIONER MURPHY : Uh-huh.
........
2 MR. WHEELER: Seems to me that would be the next
3 step. You know, if we get a letter back saying, you must
4 comply.
5 COMMISSIONER MURPHY: Okay.
6 MR. WHEELER: We won ' t talk anymore about a
7 modification of this R. P.A. Then we have the option to
8 assume the more aggressive posture .
9 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: I like his letter. It ' s
10 screw you, with whipped cream and a cherry on top, don' t
11 you think.
12 S ® STEST : Who wants to be quoted -- who wants to
13 be quoted in the paper with that?
14 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: Okay.
15 MS . GASTESI ; So, you want that?
16 MS . HUTTON: We ' re still in closed session right
17 now.
18 COMMISSIONER NUGENT: Already on record.
19 MS . GASTESI : No. No. But we do need to talk about
20 the media, before coming out of here .
21 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : Well, you know, I think we need
22 to say -- I think it ' s fine for us to be on record as
23 saying we don ' t -- we believe that the Federal government
24 is advocating it ' s responsibility to enforce it ' s own
25 laws by trying to offload that resp�onsibility on to a
...........
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo, Marathon&Key West
34
1 small county that can' t afford it . We don't think -- we
2 weren ' t warty to the suit. We are not going to take it
MS . ASTESI : Okay. And those are --
MR® WHEELER: And we ' ve asked there to reconsider
5 their position.
MAYOR ARRUTHERS : And that ' s it
7 MR® WHEELER: And if they won ' t do that voluntarily,
3 we ' re prepared to go to court to enforce that step.
COMMISSIONER WI IN TON a Right .
10 MAYOR ARRUTHERS m Right . So rice we say now that we
11 are prepared to go to court?
12 MR. WHEELER: I think you would have to imply that .
13 MAYOR ARRUTHERS ® Okay.
14 COMMISSIONER IGIN TON t Sure
15 COMMISSIONER MURPH : We ' ll seem Okay® Roman,
16 bring up --
17 MS . ASTESI c Well, I 'm just worried about the media
10 and media handling of it.
19 COMMISSIONER MURPHY t Well --
20 MS . GASTESIt The letter should be --
21 COMMISSIONER MURPHY: Okay®
22 MS . OASTESI e -- talking points .
23 COMMISSIONER WI INGTON c Why are they worried about
24 the media?
5 MS ® HUTTONe Because he ' s always worried about the
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-ss(305)2 9-12 1
Locations in Key Largo,o, r thon& Key West
35
1 media
2 MS . O STESI : Because I 'm always worried about the
media . I don' t want them to get crosswise ®®
4 COMMISSIONER URPHY: And he does very well ®®
5 MS . OSESI m 9-- one of you saying
COMMISSIONER URPHY a So why can ' t we turn everybody
7 to him?
MS . GAS ESI ® No. Not me . Not me . Not that I want
to do that
10 COMMISSIONER IOINGTON: No. We ' re all talking to
11 one person.
12 COMMISSIONER MURPHY: One person only needs to d
13 it ®
14 COMMISSIONER NUGENT: You' re talking about different
15 things .
16 NHS9 O STESI ; You ' re talking about different things
17 I don ' t want to be able to say ®® because I 'm going to
10 say, you know, gloves are cuff after this
19 COMMISSIONER NUDE by do we have --
20 MS . O S ESI ® And I don ' t think we ' re ready to say
21 that .
22 MS . HU ON : well, you ' re going to have to des your
3 media thing with the letter, not with open session,
24 COMMISSIONER NUGENT : Question.
25 MS . O STESI : Okay,
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)2 9-1201
Locations in Key Largo, rathon&Key West
36
1 COMMISSIONER NUGENT: by do we have -- we ' re not
2 taking action here . I don' t see where we even have to
3 take action in the public, once we reopen ®
4 MS . GASTESI ,; So are we going to talk to the
5 newspaper?
6 COMMISSIONER NUGENT. He has marching orders, he can
7 write the letter ,
8 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : But only reason is because we
9 have a letter that ' s public record, that ' s in the agenda,
10 that ' s something we ' re looking at later on today. So,
11 you know, we find --
12 MR. SHILLINGERt In order --
13 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : -- our discussion --
14 MR. SHILLINGER: -- to give you official direction
15 to send it, you would need some affirmative action from
16 the Board --
17 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : So what we have to do is, we have
18 to say the key points of our objections exist in this
19 letter . However, we are at a point now where we would
20 like to say that we don' t believe it ' s our responsibility
21 to comply with a settlement, to which we were not a
22 party®
23 MR® WHEELER: But these objections that we 've raised
24 in the letter can not be overcome .
25 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : Exactly® And we ' re directing
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo, Marathon&Key West
7
1 staff to rework this latter . And ®®
MS . HUTTON a Well, we can bring it back on Monday,
3 at the three o' clock,
4 MAYOR ARRUTHERS : And brine it back at the special
5 meeting can Monday. Okay.
COMMISSIONER WI IN TON : Uh®huh
7 COMMISSIONER RICE: Works for me
COMMISSIONER WI I TON ® But stick around because w
9 wart to talk to Christine about a few things
10 MAYOR ARRUTHERS6 Yeah.
11 MR. SHILLIN ER® Yea ,
12 COMMISSIONER NU E T e Okay.
13 MS . HUTT€ N; Okay.
14 COMMISSIONER MURPHY: And is that what we ' re going
15 t ®® is this going to be what we say when the media
16 calls?
17 MAYOR CARRUTHERS ® Yeah
6 COMMISSIONER NUGENT: Blame it on the --
19 MS . GASTESI ® Carry a letter around with you
20 COMMISSIONER I IN TON m Yeah. They better not call
1 me . I ' ll send them to --
22 MS . ASTESI : Yeah®
23 COMMISSIONER URP Y e She ' ll do the whipped cream
24 and cherry bit
25 MR. WHEELER: The letter -- the letter should be a
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)2 9-1201
Locations ns in Key largo® Maradion&Key West
39
1 pretty clear statement of the County' s position.
..............
2 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : Right.
3 MR. WHEELER: We are communicating with the Federal
4 government . We 've got the following concerns about what
5 they are trying to do ere® And we are simply not
6 prepared to --
7 COMMISSIONER MURPHY: Yeah.
8 R® WHEELER: ®® cooperate .
9 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : Right.
10 COMMISSIONER MURPHY: They still call .
11 COMMISSIONER NUG ENT : I don' t know what the fear of
12 the media is ®
13 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON : I don' t either.
14 R. SHILLINGER: I think it ® e just trying to manage
15 it, so it ' s not inconsistent .
16 COMMISSIONER MURPHY: It ' s not a fear of the media .
17 It would be nice if we all --
18 COMMISSIONER NUG ENT : It ' s what he said. It " s not
19 what I said®
20 COMMISSIONER MURPHY: He didn ' t say -- he didn' t use
21 the word fear .
22 COMMISSIONER NUG ENT : Somebody did.
23 MS . GASTESI : No. It ' s not what I said.
24 MS . HUTTON : Nobody said that.
25 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: Well, FEMA is going to read
All Keys Reporting—Court Reporters—(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo, Marathon&Key West
1 the newspaper before they read the letter.
2 MAYOR CARRUTHERS: Yeah.
3 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON : So it might put the fear of
4 Jesus before they read the letter.
5 MR. SHILLINGER: And we do have a meeting scheduled
6 for Friday, tentatively, with Fish & Wildlife staff, to
7 follow up on our previous meeting. So, perhaps you want
8 to give us the direction, during the open session on --
9 COMMISSIONER WIGING TON : To postpone that meeting
10 until --
11 MR. SHILLINGER: Yes .
12 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON: -- after?
13 MR. SHILLINGER: Yes . Yes .
14 COMMISSIONER WIGINGTON : Yeah® Tell them we don' t
15 want a meeting until --
16 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : I ®® okay. All right .
17 MS . HUTTON : So are we finished with the closed
is session?
19 COMMISSIONER NUG ENT : Yes .
20 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : I think we ' re finished with the
21 closed session.
22 COMMISSIONER MURPHY: Does everybody have what they
23 need from the closed session?
24 MAYOR CARRUTHERS : Let ' s give us five minutes .
25 (Attorney-client closed session was concluded at 2 : 43 p .m. )
All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo,Marathon& Key West
...............................
40
1. ('..;;ERTIFICATE
2 STATE OF FLORIDA,
3 COUNTY OF MO ROE
4 1, Patricia A. Zischka, certify that I was authorized tc)
5 and did stenographically report the foregoing proceedings and
6 the transcript is a true record.
7 Dated this 11th day of August, 201.'1. .
9
....................................................
P a t rJ..cJ..a A Zi.,,sl c hk a
10
1.1
1-2
1.3
14
15
16
17
la
1.9
20
21
22
2:3
2,4
25
.................................................. ............
A11 Keys Reporting--Court Reporters—(305)289-1201
Locations in Key Largo, Marathon& Key West