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Item J1 * 1 :30 P.M. CLOSED SESSION * BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AGENDA ITEM SUMMARY Meeting Date: 6/17/09 - MAR Division: County Attorney Bulk Item: Yes - No xx Staff Contact Person: Cynthia Hall #3174 AGENDA ITEM WORDING: A closed executive session of the Board of County Commissioners in the matter of (a) Monroe County v. Marcia Turner and Garabet Khatchildan, Case No. 07-CA-101-M and (b) Monroe County v. Khatchildan and Turner, Code Enforcement Case No. CE06120166 (Monroe County Circuit Court Case No. 07-CA-319-NY] ITEM BACKGROUND: Legal staff desires direction from the Board on the case. Per F.S. 286.011(8), the subject matter ofthe meeting shall be confined to settlement negotiations or strategy sessions related to litigation expenditures. Present at the meeting will be the Commissioners, County Administrator Roman Gastesi, County Attorney Suzanne Hutton, Chief Assistant County Attorney Bob Shillinger, Assistant County Attorney Cynthia Hall, Assistant County Attorney Lisa Granger and a certified court reporter. PREVIOUS RELEVANT BOCC ACTION: 6/2/09 BOCC approved Closed Session for 6/17/09 @ 1 :30 p.m. in Marathon CONTRACT/AGREEMENT CHANGES: N/A STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS: N/A TOTAL COST: @$200.00 INDIRECT COST: BUDGETED: Yes xx No - COST TO COUNTY: (cV,$200.00 SOURCE OF FUNDS: REVENUE PRODUCING: Yes No xx AMOUNT PER MONTH_ Year -t\X - APPROVED BY: County Atty W OMB/Purchasing N/ A Risk Management N/A DOCUMENT A TION: Included - Not Required X DISPOSITION: AGENDA ITEM # Revised 2/05 BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS County of Monroe Mayor Holly Merrill Raschein,District 5 Mayor Pro Tem James K.Scholl,District 3 The Florida Keys Craig Cates,District 1 ., Jl Michelle Lincoln,District 2 Robert B.Shillinger,County Attorney** David Rice,District 4 Pedro J.Mercado,Sr.Assistant County Attorney** Cynthia L.Hall,Sr.Assistant County Attorney** Derek V.Howard,Sr.Assistant County Attorney** Office of the County Attorney Christine Limbert-Barrows,Assistant County Attorney** I I11 12'Street,Suite 408 Peter H.Morris,Assistant County Attorney ** Key West,FL 33040 Patricia Fables,Assistant County Attorney (305)292-3470 Office Joseph X.DiNovo,Assistant County Attorney** (305)292-3516 Fax Kelly Dugan,Assistant County Attorney Christina Cory,Assistant County Attorney Nathalia Archer,Assistant County Attorney **Board Certified in City,County&Local Govt.Law January 17, 2024 Kevin Madok, CPA Clerk of the Court, 16'Judicial Circuit Monroe County Courthouse 500 Whitehead Street Key West, FL 33040 In Re: Monroe County v. Turner&Khatchikian, Case No.: 07-CA-101-M Dear Mr.Madok: Please find attached a scan of the transcript of the attorney-client closed session held before the Monroe County Board of County Commissioners, on June 17, 2009, in connection with the above-referenced litigation. The litigation has concluded; under Fla.Stat. 286.011(8), the transcript may be made part of the public record once litigation has ended. Thank you for your assistance in this matter. Please contact me if you have any questions. Sincerely, Digitally signed b,Cynthia L.Hall DN:cn-Cynthia L.Hall,o-Monroe " County BOCC o"email-hall- $$^^ cyntho mon—c—ty-fl.g,,, -US zflz4.fl,.,�,s:4�:Bg-0sflfl Cynthia L.Hafte: Senior Assistant Monroe County Attorney Attachment: Scan of Closed Session Transcript dated 06-17-2009 k 6L �1),Y III t 1l"I'd N 1AL P16 1 1 MEETING OF THE(D 2 MONROE COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS 3 ATTORNEY-CLIENT CLOSED EXECUTIVE SESSION 4 RE : MONROE COUNTY VS . MARCIA TURNER and GARABET KHATCHIKIAN 5 CASE No . 07-CA-101-M 6 MARATHON GOVERNMENT CENTER 7 2798 OVERSEAS HIGHWAY 8 MARATHON, FLORIDA 33050 9 June 17, 2009 10 1 : 48 P.M. - 2 : 11 P.M. 11 Commissioners Present : 12 COMMISSIONER HEATHER CARRUTHERS 13 MAYOR PRO TEM SYLVIA J. MURPHY 14 MAYOR GEORGE NUGENT 15 COMMISSIONER' MARIO DIGENNARO 16 COMMISSIONER KIM WINGINGTON 17 COUNTY ATTORNEY SUZANNE HUTTON, ESQ. 18 ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEY CYNTHIA HALL, ESQ. 19 ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEY LISA GRANGER, ESQ. 20 CHIEF ASSISTANT COUNTY ATTORNEY BOB SHILLINGER, ESQ. 21 COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR ROMAN GASTESI 22 23 ALL KEYS REPORTING 24 Olde Towne Centre 600 Whitehead Street 9701 Overseas Highway Suite 206, 2nd Floor 25 Marathon, Florida Key West, Florida 305-289-1201 305-294-2601 All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201 Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West 2 1 THE MAYOR: The public meeting is closed. 2 MS . HUTTON: If you' ll call the closed session to 3 order. Open the closed session, Mr . Mayor . 4 THE MAYOR: Closed session is open. 5 MS . HUTTON: For the record, this meeting is being 6 called upon the request of the county attorney who 7 announced at a prior public BOCC special meeting held 8 June 2nd, that I needed advice concern the pending matter 9 of Monroe County versus Marcia Turner and Garabet 10 Khatchikian. Case number 07 CA 101M, and Monroe County 11 versus Khatchikian and Turner. Code Enforcement Case 12 Number CEO6120166 Monroe County Circuit Court Case Number 13 07 CA 319 K. At that meeting the board approved holding 14 today' s closed session and public notice was given at the 15 June 2nd BOCC special meeting and for publication of the 16 agenda for the May 20th BOCC -- of the June 17th, excuse 17 me, BOCC regular meeting. 18 For the record and benefit of the court reporter 19 each of us will state our name and position starting with 20 the commission. 21 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Heather Carruthers, 22 district three, commissioner. 23 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Mario DiGennaro, 24 commissioner, district four . 25 THE MAYOR: George Nugent, commissioner, district All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201 Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West 3 1 two . 2 COMMISSIONER MURPHY: Silvia Murphy, district five . 3 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: Kim Wingington, 4 commissioner, district one . 5 MS . HUTTON: Suzanne Hutton, County Attorney. 6 MR. GASTESI : Roman Gastesi, County Administrator. 7 MS . HALL: Cynthia Hall, Assistant County Attorney. 8 MS . GRANGER: Lisa Granger, Assistant County 9 Attorney. 10 MR. SHILLINGER: Bob Shillinger, Assistant County 11 Attorney. 12 MS . HUTTON: Just as a reminder we will only be 13 discussing settlement negotiations and strategy relating 14 to litigation expenditures . You cannot take any decisive 15 action at this closed session. There is an item on the 16 open session, in the event that you want to take action. 17 And that would be where the court would make any 18 decisions . I 'm going to turn this over to Cynthia Hall 19 who was the assistant county attorney prosecuting this 20 case . 21 MS . HALL: And Commissioner DiGennaro, I would like 22 to introduce Lisa Granger, who is the new assistant 23 county attorney in our office, and who is now primarily 24 responsible for code enforcement . 25 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Welcome . All Keys Reporting—Court Reporters—(305)289-1201 Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West 4 1 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Condolences . 2 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Better you than me . 3 MS . HALL: But in the meantime, I want to focus on 4 two related cases involving Marcia Turner -- a lady by 5 the name of Marcia Turner and a gentleman by the name of 6 Garabet Khatchikian. This involves a piece of property 7 which is -- I happen to know the street address very 8 well, 65890 Overseas Highway, up on Long Key. This 9 particular piece of property has been the subject of, 10 actually, no less than 14 code enforcement cases . And 11 several appeals and one piece of litigation involving the 12 county. But I 'm going to focus just on one code 13 enforcement case and one piece of litigation involving 14 the county. 15 Mr. Khatchikian is the owner of the property. Ms . 16 Turner is a lady who entered into a lease with an option 17 to buy, a number of years ago. Unfortunately, it was a 18 very bad contract and what happened very shortly 19 thereafter was that Miss Turner started to build, 20 subdivide the very large house, without any permits . In 21 2006 the county brought a code enforcement action against 22 both Mr . Khatchikian, as the owner of the property, which 23 we have to do under Chapter 162 of the Florida Statutes . 24 And also against Miss Turner because she was the tenant . 25 It did appear to us that Miss Turner was the person All Keys Reporting—Court Reporters—(305)289-1201 Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West 5 1 who was responsible for doing most of the building. In 2 February -- roughly, around the same time Mr. Turner -- 3 excuse me, Khatchikian, the owner sued the tenant and the 4 tenant sued the owner. They have been in litigation ever 5 since . As a result of that, they -- neither one of them, 6 for a long period of time, could get any building permits 7 to correct the situation, yet fines still kept on 8 running. The fines are now up to $369, 000 . But the good 9 news is, around December of this year, the court told Mr . 10 Khatchikian, the court granted his Motion for Summary 11 Judgment and he got back possession of the house . I say 12 good, good from the county' s perspective because at that 13 point he could go in' and get the building permits 14 necessary to undo the things that she had done . 15 He has now request an opportunity, and he will be in 16 front of you in a few minutes, to ask for a reduction or 17 elimination of the fines . And I wanted to tell you 18 something about the history of the case and give you some 19 options . Yes . 20 THE MAYOR: Did I hear you correctly, earlier, state 21 that they started construction of a home without benefit 22 of a permit? 23 MS . HALL: Well -- 24 MS . HUTTON: Renovation. 25 MS . HALL: Renovation. All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201 Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West 6 1 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : But that ' s just a tenant? 2 MS . HALL: That is -- 3 MS . HUTTON: That is subdividing a big house into 4 smaller units for rental purposes . 5 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: So, basically, the owner 6 had nothing to do with it, didn' t know anything about it? 7 MS . HUTTON: The owner -- 8 MS . HALL: I wouldn' t say -- 9 THE MAYOR: One at a time, please . I 've got the 10 floor and then you all can have the floor . 11 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Sorry. 12 THE MAYOR: Okay. I -- I, obviously, misunderstood 13 what you said. So could you go back, since there seems 14 to be other questions, for clarification purposes . And 15 at what point -- did all the problems start after the 16 owner leased, rented out the house? 17 MS . HALL: Yes . 18 THE MAYOR: So he was not -- no enforcement 19 issues -- 20 MS . HUTTON: Prior to the -- 21 THE MAYOR: -- happened before the tenant created 22 the problem? 23 MS . HALL: That is correct. 24 THE MAYOR: Okay. So, essentially, he ' s -- he ' s 25 clean up to that point? All Keys Reporting—Court Reporters—(305)289-1201 Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West 1 MS . HALL: Well, I guess -- 01-0 2 THE MAYOR: As far as we ' re concerned? 3 MS . HALL: I guess my only point I would say to that 4 is, he has a little bit of culpability in this . For one 5 thing, he entered into a terrible contract . He didn' t 6 oversee the property as we all -- as we expect all 7 property owners who have tenants on the property to do. 8 THE MAYOR: Was there any connection -- 9 MS . HALL: And he derived -- 10 THE MAYOR: Was he involved in -- did he know the 11 tenant, I mean, like from a friendship, business 12 relationship, or anything? 13 MS . HALL: I don' t know that . I do know that he got 14 rental payments a ments from her and -- 15 THE MAYOR: I 'm just trying to -- 16 MR. SHILLINGER: There is no evidence that they were 17 friends, or partners, or anything. This was a less than 18 an arm' s length transaction. 19 THE MAYOR: Yes . Did -- was she doing, initially, 20 some things that he was aware of, or can we have a line 21 between the two of them that there was never any 22 correspondence or relationship of him knowing what she 23 was doing, which created the enforcement issues? 24 MS . HALL: We don' t know that, one way or the other, 25 for sure . All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201 Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West 8 1 THE MAYOR: Well, I -- I would like to know that, if 2 there is any way to know that because, was it a 3 relationship that went bad, that he was aware of? Was 4 there an arm' s length transition -- transaction because 5 if there was, then I 'm going to be a lot less sympathetic 6 to his request, if that were to be the case . 7 MS . HALL: At the time that the -- that Mr. 8 Khatchikian -- 9 THE MAYOR: Is that a fair question? 10 MS . HALL: Sure . 11 MR. SHILLINGER: I don' t know if the answer is 12 knowable, but it ' s a fair question. 13 MS . HALL: At the time Mr. Khatchikian entered into 14 the lease with option to buy, to the best of my 15 knowledge, it was an arm' s length relationship. 16 Initially, they were friendly. Initially, he got rental 17 payments from her and everything seemed to be hunky-dory. 18 Sometime after that, the relationship went south. And 19 that ' s when he started the litigation against her and she 20 again him. 21 THE MAYOR: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Did the relationship go 23 sour because she was violating -- committing these 24 violations? This is -- what George is trying to find 25 out, I believe is, does this guy have clean hands or not . All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201 Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West 9 1 And that ' s -- that is a key question. I understand 2 exactly where he ' s going with it. And that ' s an 3 interesting point I would also like to know. In other 4 words, just because they had a relationship, a tenant -- 5 tenant relationship, and he collected rent, doesn' t mean 6 that he worked with or conspired with her to do illegal 7 building or building without permits, and so on and so 8 forth. But did he know it? Was he aware of it? Did he 9 support it? I think that ' s what the Mayor is trying to 10 find out . 11 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Can I just add one thing. 12 And did he benefit from the subdivision and collect more 13 rent as a result of it? 14 MS . HALL: Okay. Let me answer those two questions 15 differently. First of all, to the best of my knowledge, 16 the relationship did not go south because of the code 17 enforcement case . It went south because, in essence, she 18 couldn' t come up with the money to buy the house . 19 Although, she kept saying that she wanted to go through 20 with it . And I think that he also had second thoughts 21 about buying the house. So that ' s the reason the 22 relationship went south. 23 But, to answer your question, your other question. 24 Did he derive any benefit? Boy, it ' s -- numerically, 25 it ' s a little hard to answer that . Let me just give you All Keys Reporting—Court Reporters—(305)289-1201 Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West 10 1 the best answer I can. Yes, I believe that he did 2 collect rental proceeds from the subdivided house . So, 3 definitely, he knew that it had been subdivided and 4 rented to different people . On the other hand, what she 5 did was cause -- I don' t know the exact dollar figure, 6 but my best guess would be about several hundred thousand 7 dollars in damage to the house . 8 THE MAYOR: The commissioner has a question for you. 9 MS . HALL: Which he has now had to remedy. 10 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: And is there any 11 possibility of her having any liability here, herself, or 12 are we just going after the owner of the property, or are 13 we going after both of them? Is she still around? Does 14 she have assets? She ' s the main violator, from what I 15 understand? 16 MS . HALL: Yes . 17 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: What ' s her position? Where 18 is she at? What ' s she doing, so on and so forth? 19 MS . HALL: I can tell you that . 20 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: What is it? 21 MS . HALL: I can tell you that . To the best of my 22 knowledge, she is in the Monroe County Jail . Because as 23 a result -- 24 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Can we send the bill to the 25 sheriff? All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201 Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West 11 1 MS . HALL: Probably not . Let me -- okay. First of 2 all, she -- to the best my knowledge, she ' s in the Monroe 3 County Jail because, in addition to everything else that 4 she did, the -- she failed -- she was collecting, but not 5 remitting both sales taxes and bed taxes . And, 6 eventually, the Department of Revenue issued a bench 7 warrant for her arrest . She was arrested. She also was 8 collecting some money from tenants or potential tenants, 9 vacationers . Even though in April 2007, the county went 10 to Circuit Court, initiated an action for injunctive 11 relief to prevent her and everyone else from occupying 12 the property. And that ' s the civil court case that you 13 see mentioned in the agenda item. 14 And then this past year, we actually went back and 15 moved -- the court granted our motion to amend the 16 injunction to prevent advertising because she was still 17 advertising on web sites . 18 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Let ' s get down to the 19 nitty-gritty. 20 MS . HALL: And -- and -- 21 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: What ' s counsel ' s 22 recommendation? 23 MS . HALL: Counsel . Our recommendation is the 24 following. Mr . Khatchikian has a little bit of 25 culpability in this; a little bit . He ' s got -- he made a All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201 Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West 12 1 very bad deal . He collected some rents . There is some 2 other things he could have done a little bit quickly -- 3 more quickly. Not a lot of culpability. Although, he ' s 4 got to sell the property. That ' s the reason he ' s coming 5 in front of you. He ' s trying to refinance or sell . My 6 recommendation would be, you' ve got one of two options . 7 One of which is to reduce or eliminate the fines . A 8 rough estimate of county -- this has been a very, very 9 time intensive situation. My rough estimate of county 10 time attributable to these two cases, is about $5, 000 . 11 So my suggestion would be, settle for somewhere between, 12 five and $10, 000 . And his counsel has indicated that he 13 would be amenable to something like that, in order to 14 settle the case and put it behind him. 15 However, to answer Commissioner DiGennaro ' s 16 question, there is no responsibility on us to release 17 Marcia Turner from any liability. We can -- we can keep 18 her on the hook -- I 'm sorry. Go ahead. 19 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: So we could -- we could 20 reduce the fine for him, up to $10, 000 . And the other 21 200, or 336, 000, we can still go after her? 22 MS . HALL: Yes . 23 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Although, she ' s in jail . 24 COMMISSIONER MURPHY : Oh, well . 25 MS . HALL: And, Your Honor, there is no indication All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201 Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West 13 1 that she has any assets, whatsoever. And I want you to 2 be aware of that . But nevertheless, we can issue a 3 partial release of lien, that would release his property 4 and release his liability for a dollar figure that you 5 think is appropriate, and still have her remain on the 6 hook. 7 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: The only thing we could be 8 doing by that then, that would just drive her into 9 bankruptcy and costing us money. 10 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : She ' s probably in 11 bankruptcy. 12 MS . HALL: Possibly not, Your Honor. There is also 13 the issue that she has taken a fair bit of money from -- 14 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Excuse me . Listen to this . 15 MS . HALL: There is -- she has taken a fair bit of 16 money from people who tried to rent from places -- I 'm 17 sorry. Who tried to rent the place for use in Monroe 18 County. She ' s really given us a black eye . And she ' s 19 deprived other legitimate property owners of their 20 legitimate vacation rentals . So, what I -- what our 21 recommendation is, is to the extent that we keep her 22 lien, if she doesn' t -- if she does have assets, that we 23 look towards using those for victim restitution. 24 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Basically -- 25 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Would she - All Keys Reporting—Court Reporters—(305)289-1201 Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West 14 1 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Basically, what, $10, 000 2 for the owner, and no mercy at all for the lady? 3 MS . HALL: That ' s -- that ' s correct, Your Honor . We 4 may never recover from her -- 5 THE MAYOR: Your Honor? 6 MS . HALL: I 'm sorry. 7 MS . HUTTON: Court . 8 MR. SHILLINGER: Litigator. 9 MS . HALL: I was in court this morning. 10 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: He gets life . 11 THE MAYOR: Heather, you have a question? 12 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Oh, I was just going to 13 say, she ' s got six grand theft felonies, three regular 14 theft felonies, plus the sales tax thing on her record. 15 And, I mean, we could go after her, but what are we going 16 to get . 17 MS . HALL: Your Honor -- I 'm sorry. 18 THE MAYOR: She ' s violated the Internal Revenue, she 19 stole taxes . 20 MS . HALL: The state attorney' s office is pursuing 21 the criminal violations . 22 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : And you said bed taxes, 23 was this licensed to be transient too? 24 MS . HALL: At one point -- no. No. The answer is, 25 no. It was not . At one point she paid her business tax, All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201 Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West 15 1 but she never had a transient rental license . 2 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Okay. 3 MS . HALL: And was never -- 4 THE MAYOR: But she was still responsible for paying 5 bed taxes? 6 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Yes . 7 MS . HALL: Yes . Absolutely. She still collected. 8 And I don' t know what the status is on those . The 9 criminal case that you see in front of you is actually 10 for nonpayment, nonremittal of the sales tax. 11 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Right. 12 MS . HALL: So she ' s in a world of hurt . 13 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: So, basically, you want 14 consensus from us and we don' t have to beat this horse 15 any longer. Give the guy a break up to five, $10, 000 . 16 And do whatever you want. I don' t think there is much 17 hope there . I don' t have a problem with that myself. 18 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Who is his attorney who 19 set up the agreement in the first place? 20 MS . HALL: He was not represented by counsel at the 21 time that he entered into the contract. 22 THE MAYOR: The question to Suzanne -- and Suzanne 23 and Bob, when we hear this gentleman come before us, and 24 if we want to -- can we put him under oath? 25 MS . HUTTON: Well -- All Keys Reporting—Court Reporters—(305)289-1201 Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West 16 1 THE MAYOR: I ' d like to know about his relationship. 2 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: Why? 3 THE MAYOR: Because I 'm not sure he ' s not 4 culpable -- 5 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: I 've watched this 6 throughout the code enforcement proceedings . Not every 7 hearing, but most of the hearings, and it ' s been quite -- 8 if I can term it, a soap opera. 9 THE MAYOR: It was on the front page of the paper . 10 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: Well, yes . It has been 11 quite costly to the county. It ' s been quite time 12 consuming. I agree with Cynthia, in that it ' s given a 13 black eye, somewhat, to transient rentals in the Florida 14 Keys . 15 THE MAYOR: Well, let me -- let me say this . First 16 of all, it was an illegal operation -- 17 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Yeah. 18 THE MAYOR: -- of transient rentals -- 19 COMMISSIONER MURPHY: Sure . 20 THE MAYOR: -- to start off with. And in a lot of 21 cases people have an obligation to understand the laws of 22 Monroe County. So if it was illegal, how can it give us 23 a black eye? 24 COMMISSIONER WINGINGTON: Well, it was being 25 advertised -- to my knowledge, it was being advertised in All Keys Reporting—Court Reporters—(305)289-1201 Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West 17 1 a way in which you, if you' re, you know, in New York and 2 you see this advertisement, you' re not going to be able 3 to tell whether they have a proper transient license or 4 if the pictures you' re being shown is .actually going to 5 be the house that you rented, once you get down here . 6 THE MAYOR: Back to my original question. Can we 7 ask him, under oath, questions? 8 MS . HUTTON: I think you can ask him. He will 9 undergo an oath. But I don' t think there is any basis 10 because this is not a quasi-judicial hearing that we ' re 11 having to actually require him to be under oath. 12 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: No, but we can request it? 13 MR. SHILLINGER: You can request . Ask him, in the 14 expedition of hearing this matter, yes . And, I mean, if 15 he doesn' t want to then you have your answer. 16 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: The only problem is, his 17 lawyer might recommend him not to. And the guy is not 18 going to know what to do. 19 MS . HALL: Actually, he might have -- 20 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: That ' s usually what lawyers 21 recommend. 22 MS . HALL: Knowing Mr . Khatchikian, you might have, 23 actually, the opposite problem. He is -- he can be very 24 volatile and very verbose . So you might -- 25 THE MAYOR: That ' s not going to help his cause . All Keys Reporting—Court Reporters—(305)289-1201 Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West 18 1 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Let ' s get him in right out . 3 THE MAYOR: Yes . 4 MS . HALL: Only other thing that I would request -- 5 THE MAYOR: We got somebody who can challenge that . 6 MS . HALL: The only other thing I would request is 7 that, to the extent that you, after hearing the property 8 owner, decide to reduce the fines, I 'm going to ask that 9 you put a time limit on that. In other words -- 10 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Yes . 11 MS . HALL: -- that the fines must be paid by a 12 certain time . 13 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: How much time do you 14 recommend, 30 days? 15 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : When is he closing on the 16 sale of the house? 17 MS . HALL: I don' t know that he is under contract 18 already. And so I would say something along the lines 19 of -- and you can address this after you hear what he has 20 to say. The contract closing date for the transaction, 21 or 120 days, whichever comes first, if that ' s 22 appropriate . 23 COMMISSIONER MURPHY: That ' s way too long a time . 24 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Will you just reiterate 25 how much money you think this has cost the county? All Keys Reporting—Court Reporters—(305)289-1201 Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West 19 1 MS . HALL: It ' s definitely at least in the $5, 000 2 range . 3 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : That ' s all . 4 MS . HALL: Just for these two. 5 MS . HUTTON: Can I ask you a question. Is that 6 related only to your efforts or is that including code 7 enforcement efforts? 8 MS . HALL: No. It would be code enforcement as well 9 as county attorney time . I ' ll give you an example . 10 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : That sounds cheap. 11 MS . HUTTON: I 'm thinking that too. 12 MS . HALL: There are 14 other code enforcement 13 cases . So, certainly, it may be -- that ' s my best guess . 14 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Will we be coming back with 15 more cases on this guy? 16 MS . HALL: No. No. 17 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: This will clean up 18 everything? 19 MS . HALL: 14 current -- this will clean up 20 everything that he is involved in. 21 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Okay. 22 THE MAYOR: But Suzanne, let me point this out . 23 Correct me if I misspeak. Is that if we say $10, 000, 24 he ' s got no choice? 25 MS . HALL: Yes . That is correct. All Keys Reporting—Court Reporters—(305)289-1201 Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West 20 1 MS . HUTTON: That ' s right . 2 THE MAYOR: You either pay or you just get deeper in 3 trouble . 4 MS . HUTTON: Right. 5 MS . HALL: That ' s correct . 6 MS . HUTTON: Exactly. 7 MS . HALL: That ' s absolutely correct . 8 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: And you really think 9 10, 000 is the right amount, go for what, like 20, 000 10 would be more? 11 MS . HUTTON: I think what she ' s saying is that while 12 they may have expended more efforts, a lot of it is 13 solely attributable to Miss Turner. And she ' s not trying 14 to shift that burden over to Mr. Khatchikian. 15 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: Well, maybe you can take 16 10, 000 off for stupidity. 17 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Character judgment. 18 COMMISSIONER DIGENNARO: And the edge might be -- 19 I 'm not saying we should do it . Let ' s hear this guy out 20 and see what kind of guy he is and -- 21 COMMISSIONER MURPHY: Beats 369, 000 . 22 THE MAYOR: Next item. 23 MS . HALL: Okay. 24 MS . HUTTON: So you' re ready to close the closed 25 session? All Keys Reporting—Court Reporters—(305)289-1201 Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West 21 1 COMMISSIONER CARRUTHERS : Don' t we have to -- 2 THE MAYOR: Don' t we have another item? 3 MS . HALL: We do. 4 MS . HUTTON: But we have to close and reopen. 5 THE MAYOR: Okay. You guys are killing our court 6 reporter. She ' s got to record everything -- 7 MS . HUTTON: No . She doesn' t actually have to stay 8 for the second one . 9 MS . HALL: The next one is -- 10 MS . HUTTON: Next one is about teamsters . We only 11 secured your services for this one . Right? 12 MS . HALL: That ' s correct . 13 MS . HUTTON: I believe that ' s true . 14 MS . HALL: That ' s correct . 15 THE MAYOR: Okay. You have your directions . 16 MS . HALL: Thank you. 17 MS . HUTTON: So we ' re reopening the public session 18 for just long enough to close it again. 19 (The executive closed session was concluded at 2 : 11 p .m. ) 20 21 22 23 24 25 All Keys Reporting-Court Reporters-(305)289-1201 Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West 22 1 CERTIFICATE 2 STATE OF FLORIDA, 3 COUNTY OF MONROE 4 I , Patricia A. Zischka, certify that I was authorized to and did stenographically report the 5 foregoing proceedings and the transcript is a true record . 6 Dated this 24th day of June, 2009 . 7 Patricia A. Zischka 8 9 10 11 OF 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 All Keys Reporting—Court Reporters—(305)289-1201 Locations in Key Largo,Marathon&Key West