Item A
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
AGENDA ITEM SUMMARY
TIME CERTAIN: 8:30 AM
Meeting Date:
May 19, 2004
Division:
County Attorney
AGENDA ITEM WORDING:
Attorney-client closed sessions with BOCC, County Administrator Jim Roberts, County
Attorney Richard Collins, ACA Bob Shillinger, outside counsel Michael Burke and a
certified court reporter to discuss the pending litigation of Mary Ouinn v. Monroe
County.
ITEM BACKGROUND:
PREVIOUS RELEVANT BOCC ACTION:
STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS:
CONTRACT/AGREEMENT CHANGES
N/A
TOTAL COST:
COST TO COUNTY:
BUDGETED: Yes! No!
SOURCE OF FUNDS
APPROVED BY:
County Attorney _ OMS/Purchasing! Risk Management!
DIVISION DIRECTOR APPROVALgO~ ~ D4,Jjo'f
· J. R. COLLINS
AGENDA NO.
A
Memo
To:
From:
Date:
Re:
Danny Kolhage
Bob Shillinger (rr
November 24, 2004
Mary Quinn v. Monroe County
Per our conversation today, enclosed please find the transcript of the closed BOCC
session that was held on May 19, 2004 in the above-captioned matter. Inasmuch as this
matter has been settled, the transcript should be made a part of the public record for that
meeting.
1
MONROE COUNTY
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Closed Session
Mary Quinn v. Monroe County
COMMISSION:
Mayor Murray E. Nelson
Commissioner Charles "Sonny" McCoy
Commissioner George Neugent
Commissioner David P. Rice
Commissioner Dixie M. Spehar
STAFF:
County Administrator Jim Roberts
County Attorney Richard Collins, Esq.
LITIGATION COUNSEL FOR THE COUNTY:
Michael Burke, Esq.
Key Largo Public Library
101485 Overseas Highway
Key Largo, FL 33037
Wednesday, May 19, 2004
8:30 a.m. - 9:08 a.m.
MONROE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS
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1
MAYOR NELSON: I now call this closed session to
2 order. For the record, this meeting is being held on the
3 request of the county attorney, Richard Collins, who
4 announced at a prior public meeting held on April 30th,
5 2004, that he needed the advice concerning the pending
6 lawsuit, Quinn versus Monroe County and James Roberts.
7 At that meeting the board approved of today's closed
8 session and public notice was given by publication in the
9 Upper Keys Reporter on May 7th, 2004, the Keynoter on
10 May 8th, and the Key West Citizen on May 9th, 2004. A
11 copy of those notices will be given to the clerk for
12 inclusion in the record. For the record and the benefit
13 of the court reporter each of us will now state our name
14 and position starting with the commissioners.
15 Commissioner McCoy, if you'll start, please.
16
COMMISSIONER McCOY: Commissioner Charles Sonny
1 7 McCoy.
19
20
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: Commissioner George Neugent.
COMMISSIONER SPEHAR: Commissioner Dixie Spehar.
18
COMMISSIONER RICE: Commissioner David Rice.
21
MAYOR NELSON: And Mayor Murray Nelson. I thank you
22 very much. This is a reminder we will only be discussing
23 settlement negotiations and strategy relating to
24 litigation expenditures. We cannot take any decisive
25 action at this meeting. We can only provide information
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1 and direction to the attorneys. Any decision that this
2 board makes concerning this case must be done at a
3 meeting open to the public. Let us start our discussion
4 with the county attorney. Mr. Attorney.
5
MR. COLLINS: Good morning, Mr. Mayor. And for the
6 record may I will indicate that assistant county
7 attorney, Bob Shillinger, will not be joining us this
8 morning. However, we have Michael Burke, litigation
9
counsel in this case.
I'm going to turn this meeting
10 over to him now to make his presentation to you.
11
MR. BURKE: Good morning. My name is Michael Burke
12 and I have the pleasure of representing the County and
13 Mr. Roberts in this action. This is a federal civil
14 rights action that was brought by a woman who was
15 formerly employed as the library director for the County.
16 The case is scheduled to go to trial before United
17 States District Judge James Paine at the federal
18 courthouse in Key West on a docket that begins Tuesday,
19
June the 1st.
I anticipate that this case will start on
20 Monday June the 7th. And it will be a jury trial. And
21 it would last about three days.
22 The lawsuit alleges that Mrs. Quinn, back in August
23 of 1993, had been rather vocal in her opposition to what
24 was then proposed for construction; that lS, a new
25 library branch on Big Pine Key; and that Mrs. Quinn
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1 alleges in her lawsuit that in June of 1995 when she was
2 terminated, that the substantial motivating factor and
3 reasons in her termination was this speech that she had
4 engaged in sometime prior to that with regard to her view
5 that a library branch should not be constructed on Big
6 Pine Key and that other arrangements should be made.
7 She, following her termination in June of 1995, she
8 brought this federal lawsuit, which was then put on hold
9 for about two years while a career service -- a career
10 service appeal proceeding took place wherein she
11 challenged whether there was cause for her termination.
12 That process was completed in 1998 or thereabouts with a
13 finding, which supported the county administrator's
14 decision to terminate Mrs. Quinn's appointment.
15 She sought review of that in the circuit court, and
16 that review was unsuccessful on her part. At that point
17 in time the lawsuit kicked up again. There was, in the
18 meantime, an appeal on an unrelated issue in that federal
19 lawsuit. And eventually in 2001, the district judge
20 Paine entered a summary judgment in favor of the County
21 and County Administrator Roberts. That summary judgment
22 was appealed by Mrs. Quinn to the United State Court of
23 Appeals to the Eleventh Circuit. And then last year,
24 late last year the appeals court affirmed the decision in
25 large part against the County, but reversed the summary
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1 judgment with respect to County Administrator Roberts.
2 And as a consequence of that the case has been set
3 for trial, as I indicated earlier. The issue in the
4 case, which will be presented to an eight person jury in
5 Key West will be whether or not when County Administrator
6 Roberts terminated Mrs. Quinn's employment whether her
7 opposition to the Big Pine library branch was a
8 substantial motivating factor in that decision. And if
9 so
10
That thing won't leave me alone, will it? I don't
11 know what I did to it.
12
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: Better you than me.
13
MR. BURKE: Yeah right, exactly. You guys have got
14 these things trained well.
15 whether or not the, her opposition to this
16 library branch, which the courts have found constituted
17 protected speech under the First Amendment -- there's
18 been an appeal on that issue and that has been determined
19 by the Court of Appeals -- whether or not that speech was
20 basically the reason for her termination.
21 If the jury finds that that was not the case, there
22 are other reasons, which frankly relate to difficulty
23 Mrs. Quinn had in getting along with and managing her
24 subordinates; and also an issue that arose shortly before
25 her termination, which related to her having accepted a
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1 donation intended for the library. And rather than
2 processing that through your finance department and
3 through it's usual channels, she and her business manager
4 set up an account on their own at a local bank and then
5 began using the funds from that donation for library
6 purposes, but against county procedures in the way in
7 which that had been handled. There was a criminal
8 investigation and she was cleared of any criminal
9 wrongdoing.
10 But in any event, she was terminated for reasons
11 other than this talk, this speech that she had made maybe
12 almost two years before she was actually fired. But if
13 the jury were to find, this jury of eight persons were to
14 find that her speech was the reason or a substantial
15 reason in why she was fired, the jury would then be asked
16 the next question, which is, well, would she have been
17 fired anyway for these other reasons, or was this really
18 the main reason?
19 If the jury were to find that that was the main
20 reason, she would then -- the jury would then be
21 instructed that she'd be entitled to recover damages for
22 a violation of her First Amendment rights. And the
23 damages that they would be instructed on would be
24 economic and non-economic in nature.
25 Basically what happened after Mrs. Quinn was
,
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1 terminated here as the library director, she stayed in
2 the Keys until this career service council proceeding was
3 finished in around '98 and then moved up to Norfolk,
4 Virginia. And she's had varlOUS odd jobs since that
5 time. Lately she's been working as a claims processor
6 for Geico Insurance Company.
7 And she's earned each year, you know, about 20,
8 30 grand less than she had been earning with benefits
9 that you all provided as the library director. So she
10 would go in and say, I've lost in economic damages about
11 $200,000 from 1995 until the present. 200 to $250,000
12 depending on how her benefits and whatnot are calculated.
13 The jury could give her all of that, some of that, none
14 of that.
15 She would then also be entitled to be instructed
16 that the jury could award her any non-economic damages
17
that she had suffered.
In other words, if she could
18 convince the jury that she had, you know, embarrassment,
19 humiliation, emotional distress as a consequence of being
20 terminated in retaliation for exercising her First
21 Amendment rights, the jury would be told that they could
22 award her an amount of money to compensate her for those
23 non-economic damages. And they would be told, the jury
24 would be told there is no measure for that, and the
25 amount should be fair and just in light of the evidence.
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1 So again, it could be anywhere between zero and some
2 larger number, whatever's fair and just in light of the
3 evidence.
4
The case, from my perspective, is a very strong case
5
to defend.
I mean, County Administrator Roberts, he
6 wasn't even the county administrator when Mrs. Quinn had
7 this public presentation and speech with regard to the
8 library branch. There was a substantial period of time
9 between when she engaged in the speech and when she was
10 terminated. County Administrator Roberts' decision was
11 reviewed by the career service council and was affirmed.
12 That was one of the bases on which the trial judge
13 initially granted summary judgment. Unfortunately, the
14 appellate court reversed that on some technical reason
15 that would take a lot of explaining. Frankly, I think
16 it's not a good decision. But that is the decision that
17 we have to live with in our case here. So it is a, in my
18 judgment, a strong case to defend.
19 I, you know, County Administrator Roberts did not
20
have any
I'm not sure he really could even remember
21 that she had engaged in this speech when he was engaged
22
in the termination decision.
In fact, when she was
23 terminated, it was -- the offer was made to her to rather
24 than be terminated, that she could be demoted for these
25 issues that had arisen that I've mentioned before about
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1 her dealings with her employees and the handling of that
2 donation. And she declined.
3
So the decision was not initially to terminate her.
4 It was something less than that. She wouldn't go for it,
5 so termination was the next step.
6 Having said all of that, there will be on June 7th
7 in the Key West federal courthouse, they'll be eight
8 people from Monroe County. And the way the federal court
9 does it, unlike the state circuit court, is they select
10
jurors from the entire county.
Jurors, you know, north
11 of Duck Key get a special stipend even for coming down to
12 Key West to serve on a federal jury. They can have, they
13 can get paid for staying there if they want, down in Key
14 West. But in any event, it's the whole county.
15
So it will be eight people who you and I don't know
16 right now. Or you may know them but we don't know yet
17 until we see them on the jury. They may be people who
18 are extremely reasonable, as they often are, who sit on
19 juries; and who would look at this evidence and
20 presumably reach the conclusion that, you know, this is,
21 you know, this just doesn't have anything at all to do
22 with why Mrs. Quinn lost her job.
23 On the other hand, they could be people who are not
24
25
reasonable people.
I don't know who they are. And I
don't know what their thoughts are.
I don't know.
I
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1 haven't seen them. They may be people who read the
2 newspapers and who have wild conspiracy ideas about some
3 of the negative press that has corne about lately.
4 In any event, that's -- whenever you go to a jury
5 trial it 1S -- there is no definitive thing I can tell
6
you.
In my judgment it's a very good case; we get a
7 reasonable jury, we should win this case. So if we don't
8 get reasonable people and we get people with an agenda,
9 you know, something different from that may occur.
10 The case will take about three days, as I say, to
11
try.
It will cost the county about 15 to $20,000 from
12 this point forward to prepare the witnesses and take the
13
case through a jury trial in Key West.
If you win the
14 case, the way the law works is that we will not, the
15 county will not be, nor Mr. Roberts will be entitled to
16 recover attorneys' fees. The law under the federal civil
17 rights statutes makes it very easy for the prevailing
18
plaintiff to recover attorneys' fees.
It's almost a
19 given. And conversely, it's almost never that the
20 prevailing defendant gets to recover attorneys' fees. So
21 those will be incurred if we win the case. So it would
22 cost 15 to $20,000 to win the case. And you won't get
23 that money back.
24 You won't get the money back that you've spent
25 already on the two appeals that I've mentioned and some
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1 of which have been successful and some of which have not.
2 The plaintiff, if they win, as I said to you, and again I
3 think we've got a very strong case and more likely than
4 not, very much more likely than not we could win this
5 case.
6
But if the plaintiff wins, they would get some
7 economic damage award. And agaln, as I said, the jury
8 can decide anywhere between something very minimal to the
9 entire $250,000 or so that she's seeking or anywhere In
10
between.
Similarly, the jury could award her
11 non-economic damages, again, anywhere between, you know,
12 a dollar and something much more substantial than that.
13 It may be $100,000, may be $50,000, may be something in
14 between or less than that. But a substantial cost would
15 be, if the plaintiff prevails, would be attorneys' fees.
16 The plaintiff's attorney, as I said, if they prevail, if
17 she gets a decision from the jury, would get their
18 attorneys' fees and costs.
19
The case has been going on for a while. There's
20 been two appeals, you know. And they have been
21 successful, at least in convincing the appellate court to
22 take this on against the county administrator to a final
23
trial.
So they would get, they'd get a substantial
24 attorneys' fee award for these proceedings. And what
25 would that be? Probably in the neighborhood of 100 to
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1 $150,000.
2
So that's an overVlew of the case. We have a
3 settlement proposal from Mrs. Quinn. She has, what her
4 attorney has said is that her bottom line proposal is
5 $55,000. Pay her $55,000; they'll walk away from this
6 dispute. And that will be the end of it. So that's kind
7 of an overview of the business decision that now exists
8 with respect to this situation. I'd be happy to try to
9 answer any questions that you have. Really what I need
10 is direction with respect to the proposal that's been
11 made.
12
13
MAYOR NELSON: Commissioner Spehar.
COMMISSIONER SPEHAR: You said that the first part
14 of the claim was taking care of the question of her using
15 the funds and so on. Are you going to be able to bring
16 up how she treated her staff? because I was here at the
17 time. I remember this. Will you be able to bring that
18 into this case to prove that she was not a good manager?
19
20
MR. BURKE: We definitely will bring that up.
COMMISSIONER SPEHAR: But, I mean, will you be able
21 to have people there to testify to the fact?
22
MR. BURKE: Yeah. We will have some. Obviously
23 there are some people, because of the length of time, who
24 are not around anymore. So yes, we would. But I believe
25 we will have; some of those people are around to this
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1 day.
2
COMMISSIONER SPEHAR: And is it on record how she
3
4
refused to step down, to take a lesser position?
I
MR. BURKE: I don't think that there is a dispute
5 about that. I'm not sure that there's a written document
6 that she issued concerning that. But I don't really
7 believe that that is the subject of substantial dispute
8 on her part.
9
COMMISSIONER SPEHAR: Because isn't that in itself
10 showing that he did not have intent to fire her?
11
MR. BURKE: Well, yeah. I mean, it was basically
12 this: Either you'll have to take this demotion or you'll
13 be fired. And she refused to take the demotion and was
14 fired. I don't believe that she disputes that.
15
COMMISSIONER SPEHAR: I have a problem with us
16 paying her anything.
17
18
MAYOR NELSON: Commissioner McCoy.
COMMISSIONER McCOY: I understand the settlement
19 agreement: $50,000. Does that include all costs?
20
MR. BURKE: That would include all of her claims and
21 all of her claims by her attorney. That's correct.
22
23
24
MAYOR NELSON: Commissioner Neugent.
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: Michael, was there in the
termination
I guess Jim could probably answer this
25 any mention of her speaking -- being terminated or
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1 speaking out against the library?
2
3
MR. BURKE: No, no, absolutely not.
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: So it was not mentioned at
4 any point in time?
5
MR. BURKE: That's correct.
6
MR. ROBERTS: If I might make a comment or two.
7 The absurdity of this is that the language that she
8 says is protected occurred a month to two months before I
9 became county administrator. The Board of County
10 Commissioners had already made the decision to go ahead
11
with the library on Big Pine.
It was a moot issue at
12 that point.
13 Now, part of the contention is that Peter Horton,
14 who was the division director at that time, was irritated
15 about it and came to me. And two years later on Peter's
16 advice I fired her. The -- we did a full
17 predetermination hearing with witnesses and everything
18 before we came up with the decision to offer her an
19 option and then, ultimately, to dismiss her.
20 Nowhere as I recall -- I'd have to go back and read
21 all about it again -- but nowhere as I recall, was this
22 issue ever raised.
23
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: So, in her file, reasons for
24 termination, it was never mentioned --
25
MR. ROBERTS: Absolutely. Correct.
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1
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: -- that this was part of the
2 reason we were terminating that lady?
3
MR. ROBERTS: Correct. You have testimony from
4 witnesses at the predetermination -- or at the career
5 service council hearing about being afraid to be In an
6 office with her, about bad management. You have an audit
7 conducted by the County Clerk that pointed out the
8 administrative problems with the handling of the money.
9 At one point we removed her from the Key West
10 Library, where people were physically afraid of her, and
11 we brought her out and put her in an office on Stock
12 Island where she could handle the administrative duties
13 of library director. And we, for a cooling-down period,
14 we did everything here that we could possibly do.
15 We had a discussion a couple of weeks ago on the
16 phone. There's no question of all the things that we've
17 done in terms of dismissing people in the years I've been
18 here that this was the most detailed, and as I said to
19 somebody this morning, the most righteous firing we've
20 had. We did it by the book. We offered options,
21 counseling, everything you can think of, all right; and
22 we're back here now.
23 The problem I see -- and this is what we talked
24
about on the phone
is we have, the county received a
25 significant amount of negative publicity lately in
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1 reference to issues and investigations and conspiracy
2 theories and all that kind of thing. And what Mike says,
3 we're going in front of a jury and you never know what
4 they're going to do. Some of those folks may say,
5 "Here's the county sitting here. This is just another
6 example of what I've been reading in the newspaper." And
7 that's kind of my fear here.
8 In normal circumstances I'd be saying, hell bent for
9 the weather, this is one you fight like hell. Because if
10 you lose this, you know, but if you lose this somewhere,
11 it's going to put such a chilling effect on your next
12 administrator's ability to do personnel management that,
13 you know, a lot of that control and a lot of that proper
14 governmental process goes out the window.
15 On the other hand, I think that this is one that
16 cries out for defense, but just understanding the
17 possibility that we may get some jurors in there that
18 read the newspaper and have already formed opinions about
19 the county government.
20
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: Michael, how can this lady,
21 without that being mentioned in her termination, how can
22 she make a case of this being a freedom of speech
23 violation without that not being a part of her
24 termination?
25
MR. BURKE:
I think that's a very good question.
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1 And that was really one of the subjects of the first
2 appeal. What we argued there was that there just simply
3 wasn't sufficient evidence; that even if this is
4 protected speech that she engaged in, there wasn't
5 sufficient evidence of a causal connection between that
6 speech and her termination.
7 And what the upshot of the decision was that there
8 was enough circumstantial evidence that it would be taken
9 to a jury on that basis. And really, it was based on two
10 things -- both of which I thought were very weak and
11 shouldn't have been allowed to go forward. But it has.
12 One is that the office manager who was involved in
13 the handling of this donation, which I mentioned to you
14 earlier, which was really one of the last events that
15 preceded the disciplinary action here, the office manager
16 there did not receive as severe discipline as she did.
17 And her argument, Mrs. Quinn's argument, is that the
18 office manager was involved in this, did everything that
19 she did; and that she was singled out as a consequence of
20 this. And that shows that, you know, this just wasn't my
21 doing. This wasn't the reason I was fired, because
22 here's somebody else who is also involved in it, and they
23 didn't get fired. That was the one argument that the
24 judge thought that was something.
25 And then secondly, Mrs. Quinn herself testified that
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1 subsequent to her making these statements, that
2 Mr. Horton had treated her differently; and that her
3 basic theory is, as the county administrator was saying,
4 is that Mr. Horton was put off by her opposition to the
5 construction of the branch and maneuvered the county
6 administrator to take action against her as a consequence
7 of that. And the judge said there was enough
8 circumstantial evidence there to take it forward to where
9 a jury could conceivably find that that had occurred.
10
MAYOR NELSON: Commissioner Rice.
11
COMMISSIONER RICE: One factual question. In her
12 personnel jacket, is there anything related to any
13 disciplinary position taken by the county in relation to
14 her speech?
15
MR. BURKE: No, no there's --
17
COMMISSIONER RICE: So there's nothing?
MR. BURKE: In the jacket itself, nothing.
16
18
19
20
COMMISSIONER RICE: So what we're looking at here is
22
23
the tremendous body of fact that says we're on the side
of righteousness.
MR. BURKE: Correct.
COMMISSIONER RICE: And the real issue, then, is not
fact; it's trying to predict the mental state and
21
24 decision-making ability of eight unknown people who
25 reside in Monroe County. That's really the only issue.
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19
MR. BURKE: Did you ever see the movie Chicago? The
2 movie Chicago with Richard Gere and others where in that
3 movie he says, the lawyer says he's going to
4 "razzle-dazzle" them?
5
They need razzle-dazzle. They have to razzle-dazzle
6 the jury. You know, I would expect questions like this:
7 You know, Peter Horton was deposed in this case.
8 Well, who did you talk to about Mrs. Quinn's opposition
9 to the Big Pine library?
10 Well, I talked to Jack London.
11 Well, what did Jack London say?
12 Well, Jack London was really exasperated with
13
Mrs. Quinn.
I talked to Mrs. Freeman. She was
14 exasperated by it too.
15
16
Is it in any way relevant to this case? Probably
not.
Is it something that a lawyer will try to do, to
17 make something out of, as you say, that is really not
18 there? I think that he will.
19
20
MAYOR NELSON: Commissioner Spehar.
COMMISSIONER SPEHAR:
In bringing out what
21 Mr. Roberts mentioned about public perception today and
22 the possibility of the panelists being swayed or having
23 opinions before they corne in, if we settled, isn't this
24 more or less opening us to admission that it was done
25 this way?
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20
1
MR. BURKE: No.
I wouldn't say that.
If I -- the
2 settlement decision -- if I were you all, what I would be
3 looking at primarily is I'd try to look at it from a
4 business perspective.
5
And, you know, it's risk-benefit analysis. You
6 know, eight out of ten times we're going to win this
7 case. I can't predict in what order that'll be, though.
8 If we try this case ten times, I can win it eight times.
9 Unfortunately, I can't tell you if the first two times I
tried it I'd lose it.
It would depend on who those
11 jurors are in all probability.
12 So if you lose the case, chances are there's going
13 to be a pretty fair amount of money lost, because there's
14 the attorneys' fees and costs for the plaintiff's lawyer;
15 there's the economic damages that she claims. So you're
16 looking at probably a monetary loss if you lose, if
17 you're in that 10 to 20 percent bad part, you're looking
18 at a monetary loss of, you know, gosh, you know, it could
19 be 300 to $500,000. Now some of that's going to be
20 covered by your insurance. You do have insurance too.
21
22
23
MAYOR NELSON:
If I may just ask one question.
There's a mitigating fact for me here.
It is that we're
in the transition with a county administrator.
If this
24 goes to trial on June the 6th or should it be carried
25 over to a period in the future when Mr. Roberts is no
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10
21
1 longer here, how much will that impact our ability to
2 prevail?
3
I don't think it will be carried over
MR. BURKE:
4 unless something dramatic happens. The effect of the
5 transition phase, you know, it would just, again, be
6 whatever reaction the jurors have to what's been printed
7 in the newspaper.
8
MAYOR NELSON: But isn't he our key witness?
MR. BURKE: He is our key witness. He and
Mr. Horton are our key witnesses.
If it were carried
11 over and if, you know, he wasn't around, that would be
12 problematic. But again, I don't think it will be carried
13 over.
14
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: You commented that Peter had
15 been deposed. Were those some of his actual statements,
16 that Jack London and Shirley Freeman were exasperated?
17
18
MR. BURKE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: And what were they
19 exasperated about? Can you draw a conclusion from that
20 that they were exasperated about her standing up and
21 speaking in opposition to the Big Pine school?
22
MR. BURKE: You could draw that conclusion. Again,
23 it has no relevance to anything that occurred here.
24 Again, this was the lawyer fishing. This deposition was
25
taken recently.
In other words, if his deposition, Mr.
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1 Horton's deposition been taken five years ago, I doubt
2 he'd ever been asked if he ever even met Jack London.
3 But in this environment that was obviously a question.
4
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: Well, certainly if those two
5 names get brought up in the courtroom, then based upon
6 some of the negative things that are going on -- and that
7 those two commissioners were very polarized -- I
8 certainly think that that could possibly bring up a
9 concern for me as far as where the razzle-dazzle goes
10 from there. And with the makeup of the jury, and I'm
11 thinking $55,000 might be a cheap way to get out of this.
12
MAYOR NELSON: Commissioner Spehar.
13
COMMISSIONER SPEHAR: It irritates me from the fact
14 that it was warranted, the dismissal. Even offering the
15 demotion was very lenient.
16 I know that we have not been the best record
17 keepers. Are there in her files all of the actions, the
18 things that she had done that were incorrect with her
19 employees and so on -- not the part about the account,
20 the money, which I remember --
21
MR. BURKE: That's well documented.
22
COMMISSIONER SPEHAR: -- but about, truthfully, the
23 treatment of her staff and their true fear of her; was
24 that documented as well?
25
MR. ROBERTS: Yeah. Those things are documented.
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1 There's a career service council -- I'm sorry -- there's
2 a predetermination hearing process where a lot of that
3 exists. And there is testimony in front of the career
4 service council, which was very strong in reference to
5 that issue. So there is sufficient documentation,
6 probably more than just about any other case we've had.
7
MR. BURKE:
I think there was good documentation in
8 the case, you know. And the type of complaints that her
9 employees had didn't often result in a letter of
10 reprimand or a suspension or something like that, but
11 they would result in maybe a reference on the performance
12 evaluation that would be done annually by Mr. Horton.
13 They would result in conversations that Mr. Horton had
14 with Mrs. Quinn. They did result in her being moved
15 because of where she was, you know, having difficulties
16
with employees; her work location being moved.
So, you
17 know, from what I see from employers, you're right. A
18 lot of times most employers are not good record keepers.
19 There was better than most here.
20
What I would say to you is, again, we've got a good
21 strong case on the evidence. She's going to get it to a
22 jury. The appellate courts have shot us down. They're
23 going to let her go to a jury. There are going to be
24 eight people that are going to decide. What I would look
25 at, if I was to reverse roles and I was sitting on the
~
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1 commission, I'd be looking at this: You're gOlng to
2 spend 15 to $20,000 to win the case. That's what it's
3 going to cost you. They want to settle for $55,000.
4 Are you willing to pay $35,000 to avoid the unlikely
5 yet possible risk of the negative publicity that will
6 flow from the trial; and if, God forbid, we lose the
7 case, a pretty fair, you know, definitely a six-figure
8 number just in attorneys' fees and costs?
9 So that's really the business decision that you guys
10 have. You know, if you are comfortable with going with
11
the trial, then we could go with the trial.
I have no
12
problem trying the case.
I feel, like I said, very
13 strong about our people here. Mr. Roberts, Mr. Horton
14 would be good witnesses.
15
COMMISSIONER SPEHAR: May I ask one more question?
MAYOR NELSON: Yes, please.
16
17
COMMISSIONER SPEHAR:
If we did this settlement, is
18 there anything that would be part of the settlement so
19 that another employee cannot corne back and say that we
20 have done something based on something that was done
21 before?
22
MR. BURKE: The settlement would have in it a
23 provision that says there is no admission of liability
24 and that this is a compromise of a doubtful claim. Would
25 it be a record that we settled the case with Mrs. Quinn?
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1 Yes.
2
What effect that would have for another employee? I
3 don't believe it would affect anything other than from a
4 psychological standpoint. They would have no legal
5 rights as a consequence of settling with Mrs. Quinn.
6 MAYOR NELSON: Commissioners, it's five after nine.
7 Commissioner Rice, I'll make this the last question if we
8 could.
9
COMMISSIONER RICE: Well, this isn't a question;
10
this is a statement.
In a different climate, in a
11 different time I would be very much opposed to settling a
12 case like this. But we're not in a different climate,
13 and we're not in a different time. And I think we do
14 have the issues that you mentioned, Michael.
15 And I'm inclined, for what's essentially $35,000
16 difference, to accept their offer.
17
MAYOR NELSON: Mr. Attorney, do we need an opinion
18 from you?
19
MR. COLLINS: Mayor, I think that -- and I'm going
20 to weigh ln on the side of negotiating a settlement in
21
this case.
I would ask that you all seriously consider
22 giving Mr. Burke direction to have the authority to
23 settle this claim up to $55,000 so we can get this behind
24 us.
25
COMMISSIONER RICE:
I move that.
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9
10
11
12
13
14
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1
MAYOR NELSON: Commissioners, we have a
2 recommendation by the county attorney. We have a motion
3 by Commissioner Rice. Do we have a second to settle for
4 $55,000?
5
6
MR. ROBERTS: We can't take a motion.
MR. COLLINS: We just need direction. A head nod
7 would help.
MAYOR NELSON: Commissioner McCoy, a head nod?
COMMISSIONER McCOY:
(Nods. )
MAYOR NELSON: Commissioner Neugent.
COMMISSIONER NEUGENT: Head nod.
MAYOR NELSON: Commissioner Spehar.
COMMISSIONER SPEHAR: As much as I regret it, yes.
MAYOR NELSON: And I concur with that, as much as I
15 regret it. I hate to see these things go to a situation
16 where we're put on the mat rather than the appellant
17 person. But anyway, I think you have the direction,
18 Mr. Attorney. I would like to now, is there any other
19 business?
20
MR. ROBERTS: Let me just say, Mr. Mayor, it's
21 unfortunate we're at this place. I think it's an example
22 of how messed up our personnel appeals systems are.
23 As you heard Mike say, two to three years to get
24 from career service. This employee deserved an answer,
25 whatever it was, faster than that on the appeals. They
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1 may have gone on with their life earlier.
2 The settlement -- I'm not arguing against a
3
settlement. Please understand that.
It's going to put
4 somewhat of a chilling effect on personnel issues in the
5 county; not as bad as if we lost the case, obviously.
6
So, you know, I think
I'm not arguing against the
7 settlement. But I think that you've had a very difficult
8 decision or recommendation here to deal with.
9
MAYOR NELSON: Thank you, Mr. Administrator.
I know
10 this is not a pleasant thing for you to lose on a very
11 good case. But I think the commission's probably made
12 the right direction here.
13
MR. ROBERTS: We're not losing, Mr. Mayor. We're
14 accepting.
15
MAYOR NELSON:
I understand.
I'm now saying that
16 right now the closed session is now terminated. And we
17 will now reconvene at the public hearing.
18 (Closed session concluded at 9:08 a.m.)
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
THE STATE OF FLORIDA
COUNTY OF MONROE
I, JOAN M. FOLLMER, Verbatim Reporter, do hereby certify
that I was authorized to and did report verbatim the foregoing
proceedings; and that the foregoing pages constitute a true
and correct transcription of my voice recognition notes of
said proceedings,
Dated June 4, 2004.
/j
., //
.....~....4-~hk-~:;f~f~
JOAN M. FOLLMER
Verbatim Reporter
MONROE COUNTY COURT REPORTERS
(305) 852-7344
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF MONROE COUNTY
NOTICE OF AlTORNEY-CLIENT CLOSED SESSION
The Board of County Commissioners of Monroe County, Florida, pursuant to Section
286.011(8), Florida Statutes will hold a closed attorney-client session during a public
meeting to be held on Wednesday, May 19, 2004, at 8:30 AM, at the Key Largo Library,
Tradewinds Shopping Center, Key Largo, Florida.
Those persons attending the closed session will be the County Commissioners,
County Administrator Jim Roberts, County Attorney Richard Collins, Assistant
County Attorney Bob Shillinger, litigation counsel for the County Michael Burke,
Esq" and a certified court reporter. The purpose of the closed session concerns
pending litigation Mary Quinn v. Monroe County in which the County is presently a
party. At the end of this closed session, the public portion of the meeting will be opened.
Dated at Key West, Florida, this 30th day of April, 2004.
Office of the County Attorney
Publication dates
B~J2Q[ter _51ZH
Keynoter 5/8/4
Key West Citizen 5/9/4
Cc: Kathy Fegers, Court Reporter
"-.'
Tuesday, May 18, 2004 America Online: Kfegers