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Item A1BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AGENDA ITEM SUMMARY \! §�gl Db& . C E205 -MAR ngp|tcn- Yes No xN (TIN1U CUIRT IN 8.30A.\1.) Division-- EeEn y Attorney Department. GNP t Ie,, §%E Co!l actr » BobShillinuer AGENDA ITEMWORDING- Closed E� QmRc§Geono£mcBoad ofCmlmyGom min on w9the- mam!rof. COWHY v Posi.Buck .J$&.%mi& ITEM BACKGROUND; P-uFS2Ro01,Ratthe s1\�vm*»EQfd«m ting �hallheconf dto Neitlement TieLyotia[[011s 01, strategy sessions related to @ \mbn expenditures. Preset at the nipetlng will be the Cow nlsson7% the C7mty Administrator, tht, Cou w At mmt�v. : g ant C m:% & D2n ey Bob S11111 U.tIeI COIL n% \ CO ua k| 6 m § b]'-'at 6Oti ayne S and E E sq. and OJekHoward, and E cer-fified coup mpte7 IREV|ULS RE L E VA NT BOCC ACT 10 N.- Oil VI7i0\Ilel Boa id aLL t1�ir t hi -,dokdk ssion. CONTRACT/AG REENIENT CHANGE n/■ \[4[[RECOMMENDATIONS- non TOTAL COST-- . $| 00.00 OUST TU COUNTY: $|g)/O . BUDGETED: Yes xx No SUDRC[OF' [[%D R[yE>E[PRODUCING. Ye.s No x AM OUNTPERMONTI ¥ter 4PrRq¥ED B: EoLm> Atty.. O\«87 w <�% Risk&1 aeemt�nl DIVISION DIRECTOR APPROVAL: John R.C/§m.CQ ty Attonicy DOCUM E N TA T|ON: Included Not Req/and \ DISPOSITION: AGENDA ITEM mu&d1n County of Monroe The Florida Keys Robert B. Shillinger, County Attorney" Pedro J. Mercado, Assistant County Attorney ** Cynthia L. Hall, Assistant County Attorney ** Christine Limbert-Barrows, Assistant County Attorney ** Derek V. Howard, Assistant County Attorney** Steven T. Williams, Assistant County Attorney** Peter H. Morris, Assistant County Attorney Patricia Eables, Assistant County Attorney Chris Ambrosio, Assistant County Attorney ** Board Certified in City, County & Local Govt. Law May 25, 2017 Kevin Madok, Clerk of the Circuit Court Sixteenth Judicial Circuit, State of Florida Monroe County Courthouse 500 Whitehead Street Key West, FL 33040 BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS Mayor George Neugent, District 2 Mayor Pro Tern David Rice, District 4 Danny L. Kolhage, District 1 Heather Carruthers, District 3 Sylvia J. Murphy, District 5 Office of the County Attorney 1 1 1 l 12`h Street, Suite 408 Key West, FL 33040 (305) 292-3470 — Phone (305) 292-3516 — Fax In Re: Monroe County v. Post Buckley, et al., Case No.: CA-K-1995-402 Dear Mr. Madok: Please find enclosed herewith the transcript of the following closed attorney/client sessions of the Monroe County Board of County Commissioners regarding the above -referenced matter: November 20, 2002; and, September 28, 2005. Under F.S. 286.011(8), the transcript may be part of the public record because the litigation has concluded. Thank you for your assistance with this matter. Please contact me should you have any questions. Sincerely, Robert B. Shillinger Monroe County Attorney Enclosures MEETING OF THE MONROE COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ATTORNEY -CLIENT CLOSED SESSION RE: MONROE COUNTY v. POST BUCKLEY SCHUH & JERNIGAN HELD AT THE MARATHON GOVERNMENT CENTER 2798 OVERSEAS HIGHWAY MARATHON, FLORIDA 33050 September 28, 2005 8:35 - 9:20 AM Fy COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: MAYOR DIXIE SPEHAR COMMISSIONER GEORGE NUGENT COMMISSIONER DAVID RICE COMMISSIONER CHARLES "SONNY" McCOY ALSO PRESENT: ROBERT SHILLINGER, ESQ., COUNTY ATTORNEY TOM WILLI, COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR WAYNE LaRUE SMITH, ESQ. All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (The BOCC meeting commenced at 8:35 a.m. as follows:) MAYOR SPEHAR: I'll call this meeting to order. This is the September 26th [sic] BOCC meeting. We will start with the, a few moments to recognize those that have suffered in the storms, and then we'll do a pledge. (A few moments of silence followed by the pledge of allegiance.) MAYOR SPEHAR: All right. I believe that we need to close this meeting so that we can have a closed session. MR. SHILLINGER: Yes, but if you, before you do that, could go to section one on the prepared -- prior to going into that session. MAYOR SPEHAR: Okay. Then read the script? MR. SHILLINGER: Yes. MAYOR SPEHAR: A closed attorney -client session pursuant to Section 286.011(8) Florida Statutes will now be held. It is estimated that this meeting will take 30 minutes. The persons attending the meeting will be the County Commissioners, the County Administrator Tom Willi, the County Attorney Bob Shillinger, Assistant County Attorney Bob Shillinger, Attorney Wayne Smith, Esquire, who acting as special litigation counsel for All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the County in the case that is subject to this closed session, and a certified court reporter. Since the law prohibits any other person from being present at the closed session, the Commissioners, the County Administrator, the attorneys for the County and the court reporter will now remain in this meeting room and all other persons are required to leave the room. When the closed session is over, we will reconvene and reopen the public meeting. This public meeting is now closed. MR. SHILLINGER: Vicki, I'd just ask that you make sure that we're not feeding. (Off-the-record discussion and brief pause while public exited the room.) (Closed session commenced as follows:) MAYOR SPEHAR: All right. I now call this closed session to order. For the record, this meeting is being held upon the request of the County Attorney Richard Collins who announced at the prior public meeting held on August the 17th, 2005, that he needed advice concerning the pending lawsuit Monroe County vs. Post Buckley Schuh & Jernigan. At that meeting the Board approved holding this closed session on 9/21/05 and a public notice was given by publication in the Key West Citizen on All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8/21/05, the Keynoter on 8/24/05, and The Reporter on 8/26/05. Due to the impact of Hurricane Rita on the Florida Keys, the entire regularly scheduled BOCC meeting to be held on 9/21/05, including this closed session, was rescheduled for Wednesday, 9/28/05. In addition to the general announcements published by Monroe County rescheduling the entire BOCC meeting of 9/21/05 for 9/28/05, a specific notice of rescheduling for this closed session was given by publication in the Key West Citizen on 9/25/05 and the Keynoter on 9/24/05, unable to meet publication deadline for The Reporter. A copy of the original notice and notice of rescheduling is being given to the court reporter for inclusion in the records. For the record and the benefit of the court reporter, each of us will state our name and position starting with the Commission. COMMISSIONER RICE: David Rice, Monroe County Board of County Commissioners. COMMISSIONER NUGENT: George Nugent, Monroe County Board of County Commissioners. MAYOR SPEHAR: Dixie Spehar, Mayor, Board of County Commissioners. All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. SHILLINGER: Bob Shillinger, Assistant County Attorney. MR. WILLI: Tom Willi, County Administrator. MR. SMITH: Wayne LaRue Smith, Special Counsel. MAYOR SPEHAR: Just as a reminder, we will only be discussing settlement negotiations and strategy relating to litigation expenditures. We cannot take any decisive action at this meeting. We can only provide information and direction to the attorneys. Any decisions this Board makes concerning this case must be done in a meeting open to the public. Let's start our discussion with the County Attorney. MR. SHILLINGER: Good morning. We asked to have this closed session in the Post Buckley case because there were several post -trial issues that needed to be addressed. In order to preserve the County's rights, we went ahead and filed a notice of appeal even though the Board had given us previous direction not to do that unless there was an issue that came up that we thought it was worth while. So we filed a notice of appeal just to preserve that right. I believe Mr. Smith will talk to his understanding of the chance of the merits of the appeal. I'll preface it by saying, we share All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the opinion that it would be a longshot. So the second big issue is Post Buckley has moved for attorney fees in the amount of $565,000. Obviously, by the looks on your faces, that's a large figure. That's a large figure for anybody. And so we wanted to discuss some of the options we have for contesting that and lay out some potential costs and get some direction as to how far we want to go to fight that amount. And, with that, I'll turn it over to Mr. Smith. MR. SMITH: Good morning. Can you all hear me all right? Sue, you can hear me? THE COURT REPORTER: Yes. MR. SMITH: First off, I'll just say as a preface that will follow on to Mr. Shillinger's observation that our prospects on appeal don't inspire a lot of confidence is because from the commencement of the trial process this time around, which involved a number of pretrial motions and all the things that we go through in complex civil litigation, Judge Payne had, without exception, ruled in the County's favor on virtually every issue. As best one can tell, the presentation of the evidence went in an orderly, if not a pretty welcome fashion. And, indeed, the jury was out for quite some time and the jury, as juries All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 71 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 often do, sent back a number of written questions about issues that they wanted clarified for them and virtually all of the clarification was the jury asking about how to calculate some of the detail points of the losses that the County had incurred following the decision to finance the cost estimate provided by Post Buckley. So it was, to put it mildly, surprising when the jury came back and said that with regard to both questions, whether Post Buckley had breached its contract or whether it had failed to meet its minimum duties, that the jury essentially let them off the hook. I don't have any explanation for it, but I can tell you that with one small exception, I don't think that we have, as a result, a record on which we could confidently say we're going to go to the Court of Appeals and get this injustice corrected. MR. SHILLINGER: Just for the -- I'll interrupt for a second. For the record, Commissioner McCoy has entered the room. It's 8:45. MR. SMITH: Thank you. The one exception is an issue that arose at closing argument where in a previous deposition, as you all know this case has gone on for 10 years, Dave Koppel was deposed on three different occasions and on one occasion, he was asked All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 a question and, of course, this was completely taken out of context but that's one of the many strategies often employed by lawyers at trial. But, at this previous deposition Mr. Koppel was asked the question, "And if Post Buckley gave a bad estimate that cost the County a lot of money, what happens?" And Dave Koppel's answer was, "Well, I guess that's the County's problem, isn't it." And this had not come up during trial, but during closing argument the opposing counsel had this large poster purporting to be a time frame of the story unfolding and had blown up just that question and answer, to which I objected and before the jury came in, said, Your Honor, this wasn't a part of the evidence at trial, although it could have been if they had put it in, and therefore it's improper in the closing argument. And Judge Payne looked at it and shrugged and said, well, I think it relates to what we're here for, so I'll allow it. Now, could I tell you that's what influenced the jury? No, of course I couldn't do that. Could I speculate that the jury shared some of the feelings that are not new to any of you all that oftentimes the public feels dissatisfied with their government for a variety of reasons? That's certainly possible. All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 During the voir dire, questions came up where the panel members, prospective jury panel members were asked, do you think you would be biased in favor of your County, whereupon the broke into laughter, suggesting that that was an absurd thing to consider. In any event, that's where we are today. I'm happy to answer any questions specifically about the trial, but I think you might discover that I remain perplexed, particularly since on the first time around, the jury verdict had obviously been different. In any event, where we are today is, and I'm going to hand out a spreadsheet I've prepared. I'm assuming we can then just make that a part of this record and otherwise, I'll collect them back from you, but I think it will help me to just lay out my kind of sense about the economics of what we're looking at. Starting with the figures in sort of the upper left quadrant, amount requested for costs and fees, again, I'll go into detail if it's needed, but in the interest of time and getting to the analysis, I'll just sort of go ahead in summary fashion. Post Buckley is asking for a total of $532,000 in attorneys fees as attorneys fees accrue from December of the year 2000 to date and costs in the amount of $33,500 for a total request of $565,000. All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I have speculated, and I will underline that it's speculation because there's an awful lot of work to do to get to a more precise analysis, and then it's still kind of a bet because it's up to the judge, but I think that if we do not defeat Post Buckley's entitlement to attorneys fees, I think that the lower limit is probably around $300,000. I think that they've asked too much for a variety of reasons. Mr. Shillinger and I have had an opportunity to discuss them. Again, I'll spare you the details on that, but that's simply my best effort to give a ballpark estimate of what I think the minimum is if we do not defeat entitlement. If we do defeat entitlement, and in a moment I'll tell you what I think the prospect of that is, it most assuredly will require a trip to the Court of Appeals. Now, I can ask Post Buckley to concede that they're not entitled to attorneys fees, but I expect that they're not going to agree to that. I asked Post Buckley to give me an extra 30 days to file the opening brief in the appeal to give me time to come before you today and get some authority to settle their claims for fees, and they said, nothing doing. So they certainly feel they're in a position to exercise that kind of power and have elected to do so. All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 We instead just filed the motion, by the way, to ask the Court for that. If we go on appeal, there are -- the entitlement issue arises out of an offer of judgment that was prepared and served by Post Buckley in December of 2000. We believe there's a chance that it would be ruled legally insufficient to form a basis for attorneys fees because it's not in the right form and it doesn't say the right things. But here's the problem. The State of Florida's Court of Appeals are divided up into various districts. We're in the Third District. The Third District addressed this issue once in 1999, six years ago, and said we're not going to exalt form over substance on an offer for judgment and made a ruling that frankly would dictate that we lose on this issue. However, subsequent, both prior to that time and subsequent to that time, at least three other districts, which have sort of equal authority except in our physical territory but in the state have equal authority, three other districts have said, oh, no, the Third District is wrong, we're right, and that's a legally insufficient basis for anyone to get any attorneys fees. All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 When there's a conflict among the circuits, then the issue is ripe to be addressed by the Supreme Court of Florida, but someone has to go through the process of getting to, through a District Court of Appeal appeal and then ask the Supreme Court to solve the problem. Because what we have is a District Court of Appeal's opinion has the force and effect of law in the State of Florida, so now we have conflicting law, which makes it difficult for people to guide their decisions. I also think that since three of the districts have hands down on several occasions said that the form is important, that if the Supreme Court were to address this issue, it seems more likely that the Supreme Court would side with the majority of districts and say the Third District was mistaken. But, in order to get through all that with no guarantee that we actually would prevail, -- in fact, the Supreme Court could say, well, the majority of the courts are wrong, the Third District had it right back in 1999 and Post Buckley gets all their fees -- my estimate of getting through the appeal includes a couple of items. The transcript of the jury trial which is required, would cost between 16 and $20,000. The fees for an expert attorney to evaluate the All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 13 reasonableness of their claim, which only, we can only avoid if we concede that the amount they're asking for is reasonable, is going to cost between 10 and $20,000. And then we have effectively two appeals, one to the Third District Court of Appeal and, if the Supreme Court elected to take the case, -- it would be an election on the Supreme Court's part, it's not mandatory -- then we'd have another appeal to go through with the Supreme Court. Again, my estimate is that the cost of doing that is between 96,000 and $140,000. So to summarize that, here's what I think we face today. I do not think it's realistic that Post Buckley is going to take $100,000 or $50,000 or zero dollars without a fight, and a fight means going through the appeal process. I think -- and I certainly don't have a perfect crystal ball. If you had asked me before the trial who was more likely to win, I would have said, we are, we've already proven that once, but here we are today. So to the extent I even have a crystal ball, I've discarded it, I've left it at home and I'm here to tell you that I can't tell you at all what the outcome of any course of action will be except this; it's guaranteed we can write them a check for $565,000. All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 14 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I'm fairly certain they'll take something less than that, the question is how much. I don't believe that I could persuade them on my best day to take anything less than half that, which would be in the neighborhood of between 250 and $300,000. In order to fight them to get them down to nothing or at least get them down to just their $33,000 in costs, I believe will cost between 96 and $140,000. So in all of that, I need to first hear any questions that you have of me and then hear from the Commission the direction that you prefer to take, given what we're facing. MAYOR SPEHAR: You're saying that their costs are the 33,588 and if we appealed this, it's going to cost us anywhere from 100 to 140, so that on top is -- this is a very bitter taste in my mouth to say, but wouldn't it be more prudent just to settle for the 300 and stop? MR. SMITH: If they can take it, I certainly can see a number of reasons to take advantage of that if they would do it. I mean, given that what we face today is, if we spend, let's say we spend 140 on appeal, they're going to add onto that their fees, so let's pump that up to 200 and add the 200 to 565, that makes it 765. If they took 300, they'd be taking less All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 than half of the one end of our exposure. And pure economics, leaving bitter taste aside, given that we can't put probabilities on any of the outcomes occurring, I could certainly see the wisdom in that. MAYOR SPEHAR: Is there comments from the Board? COMMISSIONER RICE: Well, I certainly do have some. This is, it's unpleasant. It certainly does leave a bad taste. On the other hand, this has been one of those cases where, without anyone being able to predict it, we've been chasing good money with bad for some time. You mentioned that you think that they would take something around 50 to 60 percent maybe? MR. SMITH: That's simply because in my experience of doing this, and I first went to work as a law clerk when I started law school 25 years ago, I've never seen a similar case where the other party settled for anything less than half. And that's, you know, that would be a pretty good deal because right now, they would have reason to feel a lot of confidence. So that's, frankly, an optimistic projection. But on the other hand, they may be looking at it as, gee, we could fight all this, we could lose at the end of the day and have to pay all of their fees. All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 16 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 So it may look, I don't know, they act quite cocky and confident, but in fact they may be more realistic about it. COMMISSIONER RICE: What if we authorized you to negotiate this figure with them up to 60 percent of the total figure? Would that serve your purpose or your needs today? MR. SMITH: It would -- I think I would have to have along with that or it would certainly be helpful to have a backup, because here's the timing. I've asked the Court of Appeals to give us until mid November to file the opening brief. If they do not accept this, then I would need to know whether to pursue that or not in the Court of Appeals. That's number one. And then number two, I'd also need to know whether to negotiate an amount that's higher than that as the amount, but proceed with contesting the entitlement because it will cost, by the time we go to the hearing and have the various experts and their depositions and all of that, it's a pretty expensive proposition to fight about the amount and, frankly, I believe, I could get that resolved. So short answer to the question is, yes, that would be helpful, and I would need a backup plan. The backup plan would be, all right, proceed at least with All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 those steps of the appeal that you would have to do until I can come to the next closed session to discuss it and tell you their position or tell me to fold my tent and go home, in which case you've in effect authorized a payment of 565,000. COMMISSIONER NUGENT: This reminds me of going to bed the other night with LSU winning 21 to nothing and waking up the next morning and finding them having lost the football game. This has gone from the absurd to the sublime from the standpoint that we were thinking that we had won the case at one point in time, and we did, and it was reversed and now we're looking at forking out $565,000 worth of taxpayers' dollars with no relief in sight. Wayne, what is -- why can't Dixie walk over to Post Buckley and talk to, as Mayor of Monroe County, and cut a deal with the chief executive officer so we can get out of this situation? It seems like -- MR. SMITH: There is absolutely nothing stopping you from that. I wouldn't have recommended it before the trial. I'll tell you what I can't -- what's hard for me to sort out is immediately after the trial, I went to Post Buckley's attorneys, I can't go to Post Buckley directly, and I said, all right, let's see what we can All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 18 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 do to see if we can just close this chapter and close this history. And frankly, said, and I want to remind you it's been a very long time that Post Buckley's had the opportunity to do any kind of work for Monroe County and all Post Buckley does on the planet is work for government entities. That's all they do. COMMISSIONER NUGENT: Do you think -- MR. SMITH: And the response was, well, I'll talk to the client. This was from the senior managing partner at the firm. He said, I'll talk to the client. He said, I can tell you it's a different culture and it's a different team that's running the company today, so let's see what their thoughts are. And then the next communication I got was, we're not dealing, no way, no how, from a different attorney who tried the case. And I never know in that circumstance whether he's communicating his client's position or whether he's puffing up to really, you know, sail home with his victory. I can tell you, they wasted no time getting their press releases out nationally about what great victors they were in their battle against Monroe County. I read the press releases. I had the reporters calling me for comment, that sort of thing. So I know certainly the attorneys wanted to cement their All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 position as victors, but I don't have any notion about what senior management at Post Buckley would do. I don't think you can cause the County any harm in initiating contact with senior management. COMMISSIONER NUGENT: I ask what would Wilhelmenia have done in a situation like this. MR. SMITH: That's very difficult to say because Wilhelmenia was one of those who initially said, let's sue the blank blank. MAYOR SPEHAR: Yes. Yes, she did. COMMISSIONER NUGENT: I know, I understand. Well, Dixie being the very attractive woman that she is ought to march herself into that front office and cut a deal for us and get us out of this situation. MAYOR SPEHAR: What I find outrageous is when we won, they tried to pay off what they owed us by working for us. Remember that? COMMISSIONER NUGENT: Yes. MAYOR SPEHAR: That was outrageous. Why would we put the fox back into the henhouse? This is frustrating, very frustrating. I personally do not want to go on record paying them the 565. I think that's outrageous. But, we have no, no way to control what will come by their appeals. MR. SMITH: Well, in this case, it would be our All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 appeals, but you're right, we have no way of predicting except to say that we have some prospect of defeating their claim to entitlement to fees, which is the bulk of this, but I don't think we're going to convince them of that because we've got this sort of lone Third District opinion. But the rule is, if we go back to the Third District, what they're most likely to say is, look, we might be wrong since every other district disagrees with us, but you're going to have to take it up with the Supreme Court, we're not backing off of what we said. And if they do that, then we have, you know, we've got -- it will be probably about a three-year process to get through both the District Court of Appeals and the Supreme Court and, again, the Supreme Court may not agree. MAYOR SPEHAR: And then we're up to the five without -- MR. SMITH: And then we're probably up to more like seven. MAYOR SPEHAR: Right. Which I was going to say, without their additional costs. MR. SMITH: Right. MAYOR SPEHAR: This Board, though, is this Board giving me the feeling that they would like to work All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 21 I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 with Post Buckley in the future? COMMISSIONER McCOY: Is that part of your negotiating tools? MAYOR SPEHAR: Yes. COMMISSIONER McCOY: To dangle this in front of them? MAYOR SPEHAR: Uh-huh. COMMISSIONER McCOY: I just don't see any, I don't see where we should put any constraints upon you to do that, but I also at the same time don't see any reason why can't walk and chew gum and file at the same time. MAYOR SPEHAR: So you, you're saying you want to go through with the appeal? COMMISSIONER McCOY: How many, how many -- MAYOR SPEHAR: Are you saying you want to, at the same time, go through the appeal process? COMMISSIONER McCOY: Why not? MAYOR SPEHAR: Hmm. MR. SHILLINGER: Understand, we're talking potentially two appeal -- actually, three appeal processes. We have the trial decision that's up there now that we don't think we have much of a chance on. Then we have, once that's resolved, if we can't negotiate a settlement, once that's resolved, we have All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 (W 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 (W 25 to deal with the issue of these attorneys fees. And if we're going to fight back, we're going to have to take an appeal from that to the Third DCA and then again to the Supreme Court if we think we're going to get to the ultimate position of not owing them much if anything. So that 700 figure is more, I'm thinking more like eight or nine. MR. SMITH: Well, and we do have to make the separate decision of appealing the trial court outcome, which we don't have a lot of confidence about. Two, we could just concede that, concede that the jury made a decision, we don't like it, we're not happy about it, but we're not going to get any relief from it, and then just appeal the entitlement to attorneys fees issue. It's less expensive and it's more narrowly focused on where we think we're most likely to get some relief. However, it eliminates two things; one, the longshot possibility that we'll get out from under it by appealing the, say the issue of the improper closing argument, number one; and number two, it would then eliminate the one piece of uncertainty because, you know, the uncertainty cuts both ways. As long as we're negotiating with them on the other side, no All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 23 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 matter how confident they feel about their prospects on appeal, surely they have to recognize that during the long period that the jury was out and asking these questions, it was Post Buckley's attorney that came over to me and he said, I'm betting that they're going to split the baby again just like they did the last time, what do you think? Want to put a bet on it? To which I said, of course not, that seems pretty apparent to me. I can also tell you that to the extent that I can read human nature, they looked as surprised as we were and the judge was at the outcome. So certainly, they have a very grounding experience here that, although it went in their favor, legal proceedings can be unpredictable. So if we concede the one appeal to save money, we lose the advantage of having the uncertain future facing both sides. COMMISSIONER NUGENT: Well, I think that, if I understand Commissioner McCoy correctly, why not appeal it, but at the same time, have the Mayor go talk directly to whomsoever at Post Buckley and see if we can cut a deal. And I would only like to amend that amendment that if the CEO happens to be a female, that we send Sonny. MAYOR SPEHAR: Well, are you saying then we All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 concede to the jury's opinion and appeal to the entitlement, and also try the one on one? COMMISSIONER NUGENT: I think that's our only relief. MAYOR SPEHAR: Sonny? COMMISSIONER McCOY: Yes, I can agree with that. MR. SMITH: Okay. So we've focused then specifically on the attorneys fees, leave the outcome of the trial where it is, and take a twofold strategy. One is, pursue a challenge of the attorneys fees through appeal if necessary. And at the same time, to work at what I'll refer to as at an administrative level as opposed to a legal level to contact Post Buckley directly to see if you can get a resolution. Is that what I understand? MAYOR SPEHAR: (Nods head.) COMMISSIONER RICE: Could I ask for a little clarification? Would we lose anything by authorizing you to move ahead with an appeal of the award, as well as the attorneys fees, up to a point? Would we leave you in a better negotiating position, at the same time we've got Dixie dealing with them, you give the appearance that you are appealing the entire ball of wax? That leaves more of an uncertainty in their mind. All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 25 MR. SMITH: It leaves more uncertainty, and there are price tags. The price tag would be, the most significant and immediate one, is we'd have to pay for the trial transcript and that's between 16 and $20,000. And then, we will have to move forward to prepare to file in the middle of November and we really couldn't afford to delay that anymore because it will take the available time between now and then to get that accomplished. So there will be that expense. So let's say if we put a time line on it of December 1st, you know, my best guess is that we're going to spend 30 to $35,000 to keep that uncertainty out there and whatever effect it has. COMMISSIONER RICE: That seems to me to be a reasonable investment to give you that leverage, just from my viewpoint. MAYOR SPEHAR: What is the feeling of the Board? Sonny, do you -- COMMISSIONER RICE: We're trying to save 250,000. We're willing to spend 30,000. That seems a reasonable tradeoff. COMMISSIONER McCOY: Wayne, you're talking about a much more narrow approach that you're talking about. Is this before a jury then again or does it go All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 26 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 directly to the, to the -- MR. SMITH: No. We don't have any prospect right now of going before a jury again. The issue of whether they're entitled to attorneys fees, one, and how much they get, would be decided by the judge here, the trial judge, Judge Payne, who certainly has shown no animosity towards the County whatsoever. Again, you know, the added surprise is that on every single skirmish where the judge had to make a ruling, he ruled on all the important ones in our favor. The appeal of the jury's decision would go in front of a three -judge panel in the Third District Court of Appeals, but they don't even look at it until the whole briefing process is completed and at the timing we have right now, that's not going to be completed until after the first of the year. COMMISSIONER NUGENT: Wayne, what is the time line that we have to do this by? MR. SMITH: Right now, the most important time line is the extended deadline to file the initial brief in the appeal of the jury's verdict, which is the middle of November. The motion for attorneys fees hasn't even been set for hearing and that probably won't get set for hearing until, I think, January at the earliest because we've got to hire an expert, All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 27 1 (W 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 (W 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Le 25 they've got to find a day of time because it's going to take at least a day in front of the judge to go through the analysis. The application for fees is, I'm holding in my hand, this is -- and it has to be dissected line by line. So we've got on, if you give me permission to pursue the initial stages of the appeal, then we've got a good five, maybe six months. COMMISSIONER NUGENT: Where I was going with this, with it being mid November, Mayor Spehar has enough time to attempt to speak with someone with Post Buckley and cut a deal. So we could give a tentative agreement to move forward with your action while Mayor Spehar hopefully could come back with a better deal prior to that to solve the whole problem and we don't have to extend anything. MR. SMITH: Yes, you could do that. And then the only question I would have is whether you wanted me to simultaneously work with any authority you gave me directly with the attorneys or you wanted me to sit back and see what happens with the Mayor's efforts. COMMISSIONER NUGENT: Whatever would be, in your thinking or the Mayor's thinking, would be the most efficient manner in handling that situation. MR. SMITH: Okay. Then I think it would make All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 28 1 (W 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 (W 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 (W 25 sense then if both the Mayor and I had a limit on authority, then she and I could confer certainly as long is it's only the two of us, and between the two of us figure out what's the next step. You know, she runs into a brick wall at the administrative offices, then maybe it then becomes appropriate for me to go to the attorney's offices. COMMISSIONER NUGENT: thinking. COMMISSIONER RICE: Exactly. That's my Sounds a reasonable approach to me. That way, you've got some leverage there with that uncertainty and I think that should help you. MAYOR SPEHAR: But what I'm getting from the Board is, and one of the negotiations, possible negotiations, is you would open the door to Post Buckley working with Monroe County again? COMMISSIONER NUGENT: Sure. MAYOR SPEHAR: Because that was turned down flatly how many years ago. COMMISSIONER RICE: I imagine that the gentleman who made this error is now building igloos, has been for many years. So I really doubt very seriously that we'd be dealing with a firm -- MR. SMITH: So I can talk to the Mayor about some conditions to put on that. One thing that really came All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 29 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 out in clarity this time around is that what happened here is the Homestead office didn't have qualified personnel and because they didn't have appropriate organizational structures in place, the Homestead office did not go through any kind of quality control with the Miami office. But the Miami office and the other major offices of Post Buckley have extremely capable personnel, but at the time, the Homestead folks just weren't equipped for this kind of a project and they didn't know it. COMMISSIONER McCOY: Are you familiar with any connection that Bud Post may still have with the company? MR. SMITH: No, I am not. COMMISSIONER McCOY: Does anybody? You do? COMMISSIONER RICE: I'm sorry? COMMISSIONER McCOY: Do you have any knowledge of any relationship Bud Post may still have with the company? COMMISSIONER RICE: No. MAYOR SPEHAR: We need to research the principals to see which is the better one to approach. MR. SMITH: There's a fair amount of information out there and you and I can talk about it. There's some other information about some other problems All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 they've had that suggest to me that they really ought to want to make this go away and not have this going on. MAYOR SPEHAR: Right. COMMISSIONER McCOY: Suppose we authorize that, that you deal directly with the attorney here and find some kind of approach and path that you want to take that seems reasonable. You have legal advice and everything available to you there. And then you make the decision on that. MAYOR SPEHAR: And if it's going south, we give Mr. Smith the ability to start the appeal process? COMMISSIONER McCOY: If it is going south, then that's it. time. MAYOR SPEHAR: Intent, so that we're not losing COMMISSIONER RICE: Well, let me re -say if it's going south, I think we should have another meeting and regroup. MR. SHILLINGER: Well, what I was aoina to suggest is that we, as a housekeeping matter, we go ahead and schedule another closed session for the next BOCC meeting, which will be the middle of October, and I'll ask for that at the open session so, you know, as part of the regular process and then set it up so we All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 31 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 have it in place. Whether we need it or not, we can always ask for it ahead of time and then we can cancel it if we don't need it. MAYOR SPEHAR: Right. And am I allowed to take you with me in this conversation in case there's something that I'm not aware of that -- MR. SMITH: I think you and I can talk about that. If you take me, they get to take their lawyers and it will be a different dynamic. COMMISSIONER NUGENT: Absolutely. MR. SMITH: So you may want to approach it on your own, but you and I can certainly talk beforehand and I can be around the corner with my cell phone on. MAYOR SPEHAR: Super. COMMISSIONER RICE: Shakespear wasn't entirely incorrect. MAYOR SPEHAR: All right. MR. SMITH: And you may or may not be surprised to learn I concur. I have one last question. Does the Mayor or myself or the two of us together have any monetary authority if the opportunity comes up to cut a settlement that requires writing some check? MAYOR SPEHAR: Are you giving me the ability to go to -- All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 32 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER RICE: I'm comfortable with that. MAYOR SPEHAR: -- no more than 60 percent? COMMISSIONER RICE: I was thinking 60 percent. I don't know. That's not a magic number. MR. SHILLINGER: And of course, you know, this isn't a hard agreement because -- MAYOR SPEHAR: Pardon? MR. SHILLINGER: This isn't a hard agreement on that number because we're in a closed session, we have to do that, an agreement on a settlement, has to be done at the open session. So this is a recommendation. COMMISSIONER McCOY: I don't think you were talking about that, were you? COMMISSIONER NUGENT: Yeah. MAYOR SPEHAR: Yes. MR. SMITH: I'm sorry? I was taking a note. COMMISSIONER NUGENT: Yeah, I think he was. COMMISSIONER McCOY: Okay. MR. SHILLINGER: I was just advising that any agreement would have to be brought back for confirmation at an open session. COMMISSIONER McCOY: Right. MR. SMITH: No, but what I'm thinking is, there's two possible scenarios. We go in and we say, we've All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 33 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 been empowered to talk to you, but we have no authority and we have no idea of what will fly, which is generally the position that I'm in until I come to a meeting like this, as opposed to the best we can do, because Mr. Shillinger is absolutely correct, we can't make a decision even here, even if we come back. We can only make a decision with the Commission meeting at a properly noticed public meeting. But if, for instance, you set the authority at 60 percent, then that gives us the ability to say, at the closed session meeting, the decision of the Commission was that they would go for this. Now, we have to go to a public meeting and we get to hear from the public, so it's not done until it's done, but at least that gives us the ability to say this has a good chance of going because of the conversations we've had in our private session. COMMISSIONER RICE: I think we should do that. I think we should give you that authorization because I think it strengthens your position. MAYOR SPEHAR: Do we need anything further then at this time? MR. SMITH: I think I understand our approach and what the scope of our ability and authority is and I'll look forward to speaking with you, Mayor, after All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 34 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 this meeting. MAYOR SPEHAR: Yes, I'll need to meet with you to do all the crib notes so that I am not missing anything. MR. SMITH: We can meet at your office or mine and go through it very carefully. MAYOR SPEHAR: Great. MR. SMITH: Okay? MAYOR SPEHAR: Thank you. MR. SMITH: Thank you very much. MAYOR SPEHAR: Do I just do the closing now or do you want me to -- MR. SHILLINGER: Yes. Unless somebody else has anything else to add, we'll just close the closed session. MR. SMITH: And, if I may, may I take those spreadsheets and make them a part of the transcript? They won't become a public record until the conclusion of the case. MAYOR SPEHAR: All right. Are we ready to terminate? MR. SHILLINGER: Yes, we are. MAYOR SPEHAR: Is there anything that the Administrator wants to say before this is terminated? MR. WILLI: No, ma'am. All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 35 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MAYOR SPEHAR: Anything from the Commission? COMMISSIONER McCOY: Let's take a break. MAYOR SPEHAR: Do you have anything that you want to say before I close this session? COMMISSIONER NUGENT: Just do a good job. MAYOR SPEHAR: Okay. This closed session is now terminated and we will reconvene in the public meeting after we take a short break. (Closed session concluded at 9:20 a.m.) All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West 36 CERTIFICATE STATE OF FLORIDA, ) COUNTY OF MONROE, ) I, SUZANNE F. EX, CVR, Court Reporter and Notary Public in and for the State of Florida, do hereby certify that the foregoing pages numbered 1 to 36, constitute a true and correct record of the proceedings in the above - styled case. I further certify that I am not an attorney or counsel of any of the parties, nor a relative or employee of any attorney or counsel connected with the action, nor am I financially interested in the action. Dated this 7th day of October, 2005. za-wt� �. r Suzanne F. Ex, CVR Notary Public, State of Florida SUZANNE F.F. EX MY COMMISSION # 00 437962 EXPIRES; July 27, 2009 nondw-(Vu WAVY P016 undOmmiers All Keys Reporting - Court Reporters - (305) 289-1201 Locations in Key Largo, Marathon & Key West a. J NOTICE OF RESCHEDULING BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF MONROE COUNTY NOTICE OF ATTORNEY-CLIENT CLOSED SESSION The Board of County Commissioners of Monroe County, Florida, pursuant to Section 286.011(8), Florida Statutes will hold a Closed Attorney-Client Session during a public meeting to be held on Wednesday, September 28, 2005, at 8:30 A.M., at the Marathon Government Center, 2798 Overseas Highway, Mile Marker 47.5, Marathon, Florida. Please note: The Closed Session was originally scheduled for Wednesday, September 21, 2005 but was rescheduled due to the possible impact of Hurricane Rita on the Florida Keys. Those persons attending the Closed Session will be the County Commissioners, County Administrator Thomas J. Willi, County Attorney John R. Collins, Assistant County Attorney Bob Shillinger, litigation counsel for the County Wayne Smith, Esq., and a certified court reporter. The ,.4 purpose of the Closed Session concerns pending litigation in the case of Monroe County v. Post, Buckley, Schuh & Jernigan in which the County is presently a party. At the end of this Closed Session,4 the public portion of the meeting will be opened. Dated at Key West, Florida,this 22nd day of September, 2005. Office of the County Attorney Publication dates Keynoter (Saturday) 9/24/2005 Key West Citizen (Sunday) 9/25/2005 cc: Kathy Fegers Monroe County Court Reporters Monroe County v. Post Buckley Fees & Costs to Prevailing Party: Amt Requested Lower Limit Taxable Costs: $ 33,580.51 $ 25,000.00 Attorneys' Fees $ 531,909.50 $ 275,000.00 Total Fees and Costs $ 565,490.01 $ 300,000.00 Cost to Appeal: Upper Limit Lower Limit Transcript $ 20,000.00 $ 16,000.00 ,:P, Expert re: Fees $ 20,000.00 $ 10,000.00 ; ski 3rd DCA $ 65,000.00 $ 45,000.00 ; Supreme Court $ 35,000.00 $ 25,000.00 ir, 1 : Total Cost of Appeal* $ 140,000.00 $ 96,000.00 '� .) . *Recoverable if Monroe County prevails 6)� . 3' .mr \ 4 k�lj)1/4/ i S \J 1\ A1/4\l'i ' \l'i *Ikiv'', v \ ,,, { \\\,- ,k,',) t\s,v ,, ' \i( 4'1' V 5 1. V, V i 1.'4y ``,f1 ft\ Ztt /\)-` 6:\ \ , .,) R.; 1'ke %; \''',`: -''',C `, 0 y ', .\s' \\‘ V N\ ','7, ,\;':\ J V1 , t \ k`' 'w\ • Monroe County v. Post Buckley Fees & Costs to Prevailing Party: Amt Requested Lower Limit Taxable Costs: $ 33,580.51 $ 25,000.00 Attorneys' Fees $ 531,909.50 $ 275,000.00 Total Fees and Costs $ 565,490.01 $ 300,000.00 Cost to Appeal: Upper Limit Lower Limit Transcript $ 20,000.00 $ 16,000.00 Expert re: Fees $ 20,000.00 $ 10,000.00 3rd DCA $ 65,000.00 $ 45,000.00 Supreme Court $ 35,000.00 $ 25,000.00 Total Cost of Appeal* $ 140,000.00 $ 96,000.00 *Recoverable if Monroe County prevails • Monroe County v. Post Buckley Fees & Costs to Prevailing Party: Amt Requested Lower Limit Taxable Costs: $ 33,580.51 $ 25,000.00 Attorneys' Fees $ 531,909.50 $ 275,000.00 Total Fees and Costs $ 565,490.01 $ 300,000.00 Cost to Appeal: Upper Limit Lower Limit Transcript $ 20,000.00 $ 16,000.00 Expert re: Fees $ 20,000.00 $ 10,000.00 3rd DCA $ 65,000.00 $ 45,000.00 Supreme Court $ 35,000.00 $ 25,000.00 Total Cost of Appeal* $ 140,000.00 $ 96,000.00 *Recoverable if Monroe County prevails Monroe County v. Post Buckley Fees & Costs to Prevailing Party: Amt Requested Lower Limit Taxable Costs: $ 33,580.51 $ 25,000.00 Attorneys' Fees $ 531,909.50 $ 275,000.00 Total Fees and Costs $ 565,490.01 $ 300,000.00 Cost to Appeal: Upper Limit Lower Limit Transcript 0 $ 20,000.00 $. 16,000.00 Expert re: Fees $ 20,000.00 $ 10,000.00 3rd DCA $ 65,000.00 $ 45,000.00 Supreme Court $ 35,000.00 $ 25,000.00 Total Cost of Appeal* $ 140,000.00 $ 96,000.00 *Recoverable if Monroe County prevails A t Monroe County v. Post Buckley Fees & Costs to Prevailing Party: Amt Requested Lower Limit Taxable Costs: $ 33,580.51 $ 25,000.00 Attorneys' Fees $ 531,909.50 $ 275,000.00 Total Fees and Costs $ 565,490.01 $ 300,000.00 Cost to Appeal: Upper Limit Lower Limit Transcript $ 20,000.00 $ 16,000.00 Expert re: Fees $ 20,000.00 $ 10,000.00 3rd DCA $ 65,000.00 $ 45,000.00 Supreme Court $ 35,000.00 $ 25,000.00 Total Cost of Appeal* $ 140,000.00 $ 96,000.00 *Recoverable if Monroe County prevails